is it ok to breed ?

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Sal the 1st — Fri, 20 Sep 2013 21:25:26 GMT

I still feel that people who decide to breed should have to pay for a breeding licence and each litter should be registered and a fee payable per litter or per pup and when presented for 1st vac the puppies should have the necessary paperwork saying who has bred them. Granted it would be difficult to enforce but no more difficult than trying to enforce a compulsory microchip. Any money raised should then be 'invested' in sorting out the welfare problem we have now

Bringing back the dog licence for owners of single animals isnt going to make a deal of difference, it will cost more to enforce than it will ever raise financially, but licensing the breeders might if they realise its going to cost them to breed and may just increase the quality of life for some of the breeding bitches if you tie in the licence with an inspection of the premises.

It was the farming community in Wales that brought about many of the puppy farms as an alternative source of income. Now I know that in farming there is a big thing about traceability re livestock so maybe its time to bring in the principle with puppies

Re: is it ok to breed ?

icklepea29 — Fri, 20 Sep 2013 20:58:20 GMT

Hello :)

I know this thread is sightly old but after reading I feel the need to give my 'opinion'.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a VN having a litter in a family; my sister did it 5 years ago and I had the female puppy.

I also have a springerxcollie that I had to hand rear as the mum was brought in to the practice so terrified of everything that she tried to kill the puppies as she gave birth to them :( - the 'owners' didn't even know she was pregnant! - not so much a 'family home'

Unfortunately rescue centres will never be empty. Instead of stopping nurses or vets who want a litter, how about we BAN and sort out the massive puppy farm problem.

Working in South West Wales I see appointments such as '4x bichon, 7x beagles -1st vaccs ; same person!! They all go to 'dealers' and we often have puppies in for hernia repairs at 6 weeks. This shocked and annoyed me when I moved here 2 and half years ago as it would seem ''normal'' here!!

STOP PUPPY FARMING!! One day hopefully!

Re: is it ok to breed ?

shakira miles — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 13:26:10 GMT

Personally the question is.....Is it necessary????? For you? Does the dog need to give birth?

There is a surplus amount of dogs all over the world let alone the UK and why add to the problem, if you know you can find them good homes then encourage these people to adopt from a rescue or breed specific rescue. In my job I see litters and litters of all breeds with no homes due to a multiple of reasons.

Sorry I am bias as I have to mop up the mess left behind :(

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Amy Homer. RVN. NCert A&CC — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 18:25:00 GMT

personnally, i can relate to many of the comments on here, but coming from another aspect, im sure there are many vns that have brought pedigree dogs and cross breeds from breeders, so i think it can be easy to have double standards on the situation. like i said , i also agree that there are many unwanted dogs euthanased each day, but then i did buy a pedigree dog myself so hey, who am i to critisise x good luck x

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Shelly vn — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 18:02:50 GMT

If i could have found a place like that near to me then i would definatly have rescued but all the ones i tried were unbelievably strict! I have no problem with them having criteria and rules but some common sense could have been used!

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Katherine Spear — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 16:54:15 GMT

But in answer to the concern that rescue centres have too strict criteria - you can adopt dogs from other places that are much less strict - I got my first rescue dog from the pound in leeds - a lovely terrier who was perfectly well behaved, completely toilet trained, never barked, fine with children etc etc - he was found wandering the streets in leeds and would have been euthanaised shortly after I got him due to space. They had no adoption criteria, not even a home check so was an easy chap to get! Some rescue centres may be too stringent but not all of them Im sure! :)

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Shelly vn — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:29:39 GMT

Without wanting to get shot down in flames, i thought i'd add my 2 pennyworth in! When my older dog died recently, i went to all the rescue centres looking for another dog. I didn't necessarily want a puppy, but i did want a companion for my other dog. I strongly believe in rescuing where possible, but i hadn't been to a rescue centre for years. Well what a nightmare it turned out to be! In the first instance, i was told by each of them that i work too many hours (how i'm supposed to pay for the dog otherwise i'm not sure!). when i went back having made arrangments for a family member to look after the dog part time, there were 101 other reasons why i wasn't suitable to have any of the dogs of my choice, varying from no experience owning that breed (been nursing 15 years!), garden too small, too close to a main road etc! It totally put me off rescuing a dog and i went and brought a puppy! Rescuing is fine if you meet all the very strict criteria that the centres have, but when someone in our profession doesn't meet the criteria then what hope do some of our clients have? In that case what they will need is a knowledge breeder, who will sell them a healthy, well bred puppy. So i say to the OP - If it is right for you and you know you can produce healthy, well adjusted puppies and sell them to senisble people then why not?

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Sal the 1st — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 20:20:14 GMT

[quote user="ianmianm"]

I have a simple rule - those who wish to breed should visit a pound or shelter on PTS day and hold the dogs being euthed. About 15 dogs should cover it. If they still decide to breed after that, then at least they're informed.

[/quote]

couldnt agree more

I will never ever forget quite early on in my career a horse box arriving in the car park containing around 20 racing greyhounds that had 'failed the grade' - the last 5 or 6 had a stay of execution of another week until the body man had been and emptied the freezer and the body bin so there was room for them.

I worked in a charity for over 10yrs - its depressing euthanasing perfectly healthy animals, it gets to you, and knowing that tomorrow you will be doing it all over again

Re: is it ok to breed ?

ianmianm — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 20:09:21 GMT

Re: is it ok to breed ?

susber — Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:43:41 GMT

I work for a charity and so see SO many animals that are brought in either as strays or because the owner has decided that they do no want them anymore. This is not just old or middle aged animals there are also puppies and kittens that are brought in too. There are plenty of puppies and kittens at other charities and rehoming centres so there are always going to be lots of opportunities for people to experience young animals and use rehoming services too.

Nobody can stop you from breeding if that is what you want to do. What I would ask is why do you want to breed? Are you going to keep all of the pups? If not and are going to sell them what will you do if you can't sell them? Personally I wouldn't breed and would actually like to see more done to control the population of animals. People have been talking about dog licences but I would rather see some regulation over breeding. Ensuring that the pups/kittens are taken care of correctly and that the mum is looked out for too. Maybe only allowing a certain number of pregnancies as I wouldn't want to be pregnant all the time.

Re: is it ok to breed ?

emmadilemma — Wed, 10 Jul 2013 09:18:52 GMT

I think we have really shafted dogs to be honest. We took it upon ourselves to domesticate them and the suffering that has been caused to them as a result is enormous. Aside from the stray crisis, we all see the dogs that have been bred beyond recognition and personally i would be delighted to see some of these breeds go extinct.

It`s hard to see how things are going to change as there seems to be an insatiable desire for pedigree dogs but as sanctuaries are now full to bursting with them maybe more people will rescue pedigree`s instead of buy them and the `market` can be satisfied that way?

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Katherine Spear — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 22:44:46 GMT

Again Im dittoing Emma Dilemma! We are hardly going to run out of dogs. We are killing them because theres no room for them, which is what makes breeding more unjust. Its about being responsible and choosing not to breed - while there are dogs being killed for lack of a home every day in the UK. Once we balance out and the rescue centres are empty, breeding is no longer an issue.

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 22:43:52 GMT

Maybe not - but stray dogs don't tend to make good family pets. Where will those come from?

Re: is it ok to breed ?

emmadilemma — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 22:38:03 GMT

According to statistics there are over 600 million stray dogs worldwide so i don`t think extinction of the species is anything to worry about just yet

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 22:23:07 GMT

To those who don't feel a vet nurse should allow her dog to breed, please can I ask:

who do you think should be 'allowed' to breed dogs? (Assuming you don't want dogs to become an extinct species?)

It is a serious question!

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Fluffywhiskers — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 21:28:49 GMT

All the while rescues are full to the brim and there are people putting profit before welfare when breeding I say no it is not ok to breed. At the end of the day you cannot guarantee the best future for your puppys pups and future pups born down the line. Take a look at this:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Puppy-Love-Campaigns/202945053081069

Don't add to the misery.

"doesnt everyone derserve the pleasure of a new puppy ?" More to the point doesn't every puppy born deserve the pleasure of a decent home where it's happy and properly looked after. The fact is puppys born do grow older and some end up having puppys bred by unscrupulous people who treat our canine companions as breeding machines. As I say you cannot guarantee the future of your puppys, puppys pups.

Re: is it ok to breed ?

stephanie brough — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 18:39:54 GMT

thanks for all the opinions i do appreciate it.

as nurses we all try to do the best by animals and most of us have rehomed a rescue. we have a vet who believe it or not had never owned a dog. she desperatly wanted to experience a puppy but felt guilty in getting on when there are so many rescue dogs. she got a puppy in the end from a so called hobby breeder and still feels bad now due to people opinion. doesnt everyone derserve the pleasure of a new puppy ?

the experiences i have had with rescues have been very difficult and that isnt for everyone. im a vet nurse with lots of experience and even i found it difficult and frustrating.

im thinking there is no right or wrong really

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Louise B — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:57:28 GMT

I am as pro-rescue as most others (hell, my house is full of rescue dogs, including a staffie X) but the reality is that most people don't want staffies and that is what makes up the bulk of shelter populations. If people breed less other breeds, are people miraculously going to start adopting staffies from shelters? Seems unlikely.

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Katherine Spear — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:44:51 GMT

Just learning about the endangered breed list-very interesting! Im also very impressed to read that the Kennel Club breed rescue rehome more dogs than Battersea and the Dogs Trust put together - fantastic work and very cool to see - must be plenty of scope for people to adopt the breed they want from the sound of that.

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Katherine Spear — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:02:48 GMT

Apologies if you found any of the opinions against breeding too much, no offense was meant Im sure.

In answer to your question, for myself I do feel strongly from both an emotional and a logical stance that high standards of breeding in any breed is not right. Even if a breed is not often found in a rescue centre there are plenty of rehoming organisations that organise rehoming of a specific breed. We had a huge book in my previous practice that listed thousands of contact details of such organisations - and this was idea when people wanted to adopt a specific breed - poodles, papillons, etc etc. Which breed is it you are looking to breed from? I am interested to know also which breeds are considered endangered? For myself I am of the opinion that the individual is more important than the breed and so even if a breed is endangered wouldnt feel the need to breed it - a panda is no more worthy than a brown bear I guess in my own opinion - but I can appreciate many people may feel differently. But, even if so, knowing how great jack russells, staffies, GSDs etc are, I do feel really sad to think of them being passed over as being too common for someone to spend hundreds of pounds on a pedigree breed that isnt found in rescue homes so much instead. I feel as Vet Nurses we have the perfect opportunity to change the publics perception that pedigrees are the best. As we know, this is often not the case (http://www.ufaw.org.uk/dogs.php). And, as Vet Nurses, our first duty is to animal welfare, and I dont think breeding dogs is good for animal welfare, even if it helps conserve a breed, as it if a member of the public chooses to buy a pedigree pup instead of adopting a crossbreed, that crossbreed is stuck in its life of suffering still.

So, please dont see this view as aggro, I am just giving my honest opinion to a very serious question, and I mean no offense and just want to help your decision. I bet your own rescue dog is super lovely!

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 16:51:20 GMT

If you want to breed, go for it. As long as you are prepared for the hard work and financial implications, especially if things go wrong, then it is your decision.

Some people are lovely, desperate to have their own puppy and help it develop into a normal, happy dog. There have to be good breeders around who will fill that need. As long as you approach it from the standpoint of enjoying producing healthy pups, who find loving homes, then there is no harm. However, if you do it for financial gain you are a) likely to be sorely disappointed and 2) in the wrong profession!

As far as rescue dogs; yes, there are a lot of lovely dogs needing homes. There are far more 'behaviourally challenged' dogs needing homes - and some people are just not able to take on that responsibility. It isn't the dog's fault that they have had a rubbish owner(s) but it is completely different taking on an adult rescue dog than getting your own puppy.

I have had two rescues - one an adult dog and one a puppy - and I have to say that even though the adult dog is my little star, getting the puppy at 3 months old was a wonderful experience, especially for my children who saw her grow! (Although I can't imagine ever paying for a dog! )

Worth remembering that if nobody bred dogs then none us us would have a job! Surely we should be encouraging the right people to breed their animals, in the right situations - not discouraging all breeding!

Re: is it ok to breed ?

stephanie brough — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 15:32:03 GMT

I am not surprised by some of these comments i would however like to add i am not stupid and understand the rescue situation. i have a rescue dog myself who after a lot off hard work has become a joy to own.

some people like breeds that are not often found in rescue centre or are even classed as endangered and so is high standards of breeding in these breeds acceptable.

i don't want a load of aggro just some opinions

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Liv — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 09:45:29 GMT

If you even have to ask that question, that says to me that it doesn't sit 100% right with you deep down, because if it did, I don't think you would need other people to justify it.

Personally I agree with most of the other responses, that there are too many unwanted animals already. Again from working in an RSPCA centre, and visiting the adjoining cats/dogs home and seeing all those dogs sat in kennels, some for a very long time, waiting for homes, I just don't think its fair to add to the potential problem.

After visiting the dogs home, although the staff are doing a great job, it just made me really sad to see and think of these poor pooches just longing to go to a new family which never comes along :( I do say to people wanting to breed now, that before they do, go to a dogs home/ rehoming centre and just spend some time there and see how you feel after seeing all those dogs waiting day after day after day for a new family to come along, then see how you feel about breeding....if it doesn't pull on your heart strings....

Just my thoughts....

Re: is it ok to breed ?

molladog — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 08:41:13 GMT

As I work in a rehoming shelter, my answer to this is a definate NO. There are far too many lovely dogs sitting behind bars in kennels at the moment to warrant the breeding of more puppies, half of which will probably end up in rescue homes once the novelty wears off. Please think responsibly about this...

Re: is it ok to breed ?

Katherine Spear — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 08:19:56 GMT

I would ditto EmmaDilemmas post - there are so many unwanted dogs in the UK at the moment that breeding more only takes away a potential home for one already existing. One in 5 people who buy a puppy get rid of it within the first 2 years of its life so even if you found perfect homes for the pups chances are high that it wont last.. Im against the breeding of dogs for ethical reasons while theres so many without homes already and I feel so bad for them all in some terrible conditions with little chance of adoption as everyone buys a puppy instead. But what are your reasons for wanting to breed? You could always offer to foster tiny pups instead of breeding them perhaps?