letting out FIV+ cats

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Cat Woman — Mon, 04 May 2009 10:10:08 GMT

Not pts because they have poor immune system, but because they could pass it on to others.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

ruthmt — Sun, 03 May 2009 22:46:08 GMT

I do agree that it would be best if FIV cats be kept indoors but I dont agree that domesctic cats should be pts because they have a poor immune system.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Vicky RVN — Sun, 03 May 2009 20:26:00 GMT

Totally agree with you Cat Woman. If i had an FIV cat i'd feel really guilty if i let it out and it passed on the disease. Ok we can't eradicate the disease, but we can help!

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Cat Woman — Sun, 03 May 2009 20:04:52 GMT

But is it fair to let known FIV cats roam with non-FIV cats, with the potential to fight & then pass on this disease to them? I'm not sure it is. Also, I feel that if a cat is used to being outdoors, then it is unfair to keep it shut in - stress related problems are something we see everyday & mostly its indoor cats that are affected. As for cats (or any living being) being able to choose, I think we all know that animals aren't capable of this, which is why we make decisions & hope that in every case we are doing the right thing.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

ruthmt — Sun, 03 May 2009 19:50:53 GMT

I think if you gave any living being a choice of death or a comfortable life indoors they would all pick the same thing. Ferals I can understand but tame cats is different. FIV will not be eraicated until a proper vaccine is developed. You can put down 1000 cats a day but its still only the tip of the iceburg.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

ruthmt — Sun, 03 May 2009 19:46:43 GMT

Thats why we offer free treatment for our FIV cats. Even if they have a slight sniffle they can get a vet check and treatment if necessary. We have lots of FIV cats that have been out in new homes for years and live to old age. We had one who is now about 18 and is in better health than most of he other old cats we see. For every 1 FIV cat we do find there are probably 10 that we dont.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Cat Woman — Sun, 03 May 2009 18:34:58 GMT

[quote user="ruthmt"]we rehome our FIV cats to both indoor and outdoor homes. [/quote]

Whilst I agree that if possible the cats can be rehomed as indoor cats (if this is something that the cat is accustomed to - cats that are used to going outside, should not be shut in, it would be too stressful for them) I do not think that FIV+ve cats should be allowed to roam freely.

[quote user="ruthmt"]I have never seen an FIV cat at deaths door. [/quote]

Me neither. However we see numerous cats every year that are poorly, with conditions that an unaffected cat would be able to fight off with its natural immunity.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

ruthmt — Sun, 03 May 2009 17:31:36 GMT

I work for a cat rescue centre and we rehome our FIV cats to both indoor and outdoor homes. We work 50/50 with feral and domestic cats and I can honestly say that in 18 months I have never seen an FIV cat at deaths door.

We only ever test cats that appear ill 9/10 cats are FIV -ve. We explain to the new owner about ther cats care etc. We provide free vet treatment for anything possible FIV related ie dentals. I think we are far to quick to pts-if we were as selective about people there would be only about 10% of us left.

Id also like to say that half of vets just go along with what they ve learnt at their last practice and what they think is the norm without keeping up to date on the subject.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

JaneRVN — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:55:37 GMT

I agree, current feedback on the US vaccine is that it isn't that effective.

US drug laws are a bit more lax than ours, it is usually held that our pharma regs are above ad beyond pretty much every other country! So until allowed here then probably best to tkae with a pinch of salt - anyone remember the FIP vaccine in Italy?

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Zoe Archer — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:23:27 GMT

I have kept FIV +ve cats and I would never let them out as not fair on uninfected cats, at least I know i am doing my bit to protect the cat population. Not only that but they are immunosuppressed and are likely to pick up infections which in an FIV cat can make them very ill.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Cat Woman — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:11:01 GMT

Just read the FAB info from the link above. It states that little information is available regarding the efficacy of the vaccine. I'm sure I read somewhere that in America their testing only has to prove a drug safe - not that it has to work?? Whereas here, we have to prove they are safe & work. Anyone know about American drug laws??

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Cat Woman — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:00:01 GMT

We saw 2 FIV cats today. A young domesticated female (pregnant) who the charity requested that we euthanase & an old, stinking, filthy male (feral) who they wish to rehome!!!!!!!!!!! Whats THAT all about??!

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:50:36 GMT

I think thats a good Idea Emma, and if anyone else has any, put them on.That way we can get an almost countrywide Idea of just how bad it is.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Emma Purnell — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:03:10 GMT

We had a fairly young, very feral cat last week through a charity to be FeLV/FIV and neutered, once we managed to anaesthetise it it was hugely anaemic and turned out to be FIV+. I don't know if the anaemia and general ill health was due to the FIV, just thought it was worth mentioning as a possible recent young cat case.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

jo. h. arter — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:40:26 GMT

The practice i worked in in New Zealand routinely offered the FIV vax (this was about 2006). They also stipulated the cat must be microchipped as if picked up by the spca and FIV tested they would show a false positive (form the vaccine)

I can't remember if we advised people to keep their cats indoors or not. I suspect being New Zealand 'indoor cats' were not a common thing.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Saskia Quinn — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:35:18 GMT

yes, Pfizer do make the vaccine in Australia. I remember this because I looked into it once if there were any available vaccines over here. Sadly not.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Claire Cameron — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:31:15 GMT

[quote user="JaneRVN"]

Interesting news!

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/fiv/vaccine.html

[/quote]

I worked with an australian locum vet recently who said that they are using an FIV vaccine over there already and have been for while (think Pfizer produce this but cant remember which company for 100%)

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

JaneRVN — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 09:55:44 GMT

I agree with STRVN, and the others who have replied that it is impossible to track if they are being kept in! We saw one FIV+ cat back with a CBA 1 yr after diagnosis when the owners had promised to keep it in!

I have worked for many charities and FIV is used as a numbers game/chronic condition to have them PTS. I hasten to add that if the animal is well and obviously well socialised it will usually be rehomed, but to people with alot of knowledge and experience.

I think single cat households aren't neccesary as long as they get on, but I prefer to advise keeping in due to their own lowered immunity rather than the risk to other cats. Having seen simple cat flu in an otherwise healthy FIV cat I would be worried over my own cats health! Also CBA's can be so much worse in FIV+ cats.

I would be intereseted in what others think about vacc and FIV, as have encountered a 5 yr old cat M entire with numerous fight wounds that has been vacc'd every year for 5 years at a private vets and was brought to a charity as a stray (re-united in the end) and tested FIV+! The owner had never heard of FIV and so the vet can only have done a basic risk assessment as per

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/fiv/faqs.html

Interesting news!

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/fiv/vaccine.html

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:15:12 GMT

Hi Maisy, Thankfully my first reply was not a strike out, out of the park.....lol I was awaiting the hangmans noose if I am honest.

I know I dont know a helluva lot on FIV+, but do know that it is not exactly wiping the cat population out,and until I know more basically I will reserve my judgement on who should be doing what where or when on it.

What I am basically basis my judgement on is, I have 4 cats, they go outside. I also have 2 feral cats who visit frequently in the summer months(no idea why, as i have no entire females) but basically they park their derriers in my garden for the summer.My cats go out and have been nose to nose with them....... do I test them weekly, then restrict them if they happen to be positive, or do I restrict them incase the ferals ARE positive???

Or do I trap the ferals, have them tested and PTS if they are???? Personally I would rather let whoever is in charge of the animal race decide on natural selection, it certainly takes the weight off me, and lets my cats live the lives they want

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Maisy — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:17:09 GMT

I dunno really ST, I suppose most of the cats seen with FIV have probably been diagnosed several years after contracting the disease and who knows who they've been in contact with during that time. Have met many FIV cats yet like you, some have developed renal disease also and this is what has resulted in PTS rather than an other related condition.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:27:54 GMT

Ok I will pose a question, how many cats do we see that actually suffer from FIV+ related illness??

How many are we putting to sleep because they are on deaths door because of it?

I can actually say I have never seen more than 2, and they were ancient. and yes they were FIV+ , but they also had renal failure, a very common problem, so was it the FIV, or was it just typical renal failure?? How much do we actually know about this disease in cats, apart from a knee jerk reaction, that all cats must be kept single cat households (which I dont believe should be the case) my friends cats have proved that for me, or that we should be disposing of cats simply because they are FIV+. If this illness is so wide spread, and killing them at a rate of noughts, then yes, but I am not seeing that. My cats are outside cats, they come and go, I have never had any tested, who knows they may be FIV+, but like all others, I would only probably check this if they had some illness. So who are we to say that all FIV+ cats should be kept indoors, when a lot of us probably dont know if our own are carriers.

If anyone on here has proof that this disease is such a killer, then yes I am willing to listen, and I might be talking out of my backside in reference to it, but until I am shown the hard facts then I can only go on what I know.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Emma Purnell — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:37:34 GMT

[quote user="STRVN"]

Also should add that she has another cat, same age, same litter, and he is -ve, and still is.

I dont think that a positive cat should ultimately mean euthanasia.

[/quote]

Neither do I, and in our case it is simply procedure from above our heads through the local RSPCA etc. that dictates we must.

However, if the cat involved is a feral cat, being permanently caged for the remainder of its life or trapped in a house, is it really fair?

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:32:30 GMT

Also should add that she has another cat, same age, same litter, and he is -ve, and still is.

I dont think that a positive cat should ultimately mean euthanasia.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:30:26 GMT

A nurse friend of mine has a FIV+ cat, he was diagnosed about 7 years ago, in fact it may be more, he is now about 11 and as fit as a fiddle.

Re: letting out FIV+ cats

Emma Purnell — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:22:34 GMT

We have recently had a lot of debate about this at work.

One of our long-term, 'camping in the car-park' clients has started collecting the large number of entire toms she feeds in her garden and getting them in to be FeLV/FIV tested and neutered. All are feral and regularly fight. The last one we have, covered in scars and wounds, came out as positive, so she asked us to kennel him and send it to be confirmed via the labs. It did, sadly, come back as positive.

Now we have the difficulty. She has spent the time he was with us building a 'cat-run' in her garden for him to live in and has now moved him into there. Some of us felt it was worth giving him a go, others are not sure that for a feral, roaming cat he is going to do all that well 'caged'. She is very attached to all these cats though and he is clinically well, so what would we all do in that situation?

We also have a lot of RSPCA and local charity cat neuters in and generally any FIV+ cats through them are euthanased as they are struggling to find homes for those cats that have no problems. They do also tend to be more feral. Its a shame though, it really is.