All suggestions welcome!

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Sal the 1st — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 00:07:48 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[/quote]

I refrained from posting this earlier as I needed to check with the nurse concerned she was happy about me posting. ( she comes on here regularly and we are good friends)

This happened a few years ago.

A vet friend who I used to work with had set up his own practice some years earlier, nice little practice just him 2 nursing staff and on busy days his wife mucked in on reception.

He rang me up one night just general chit chat, I already knew his marriage was on the rocks so that didnt surprise me too much but what I did find surprising was that he was having problems with one of his nursing staff to the extent he couldnt bear to be in the same room and was seriously considering how they could part company.

It just didnt sound right - she had always been very bright and chirpy when I had visited or called and she had been there since the practice started ( about 5 years)

I asked him if he wanted a locum for the week to see if I could work out what was happening.

When I arrived I was 'greeted' by this miserable , sullen nurse on reception who told me on the very first afternoon that she didnt want to be there, it was a crap place to work, she did all the work and they would miss her when she left - (didnt dare say it out loud but I thought yep they will definitely miss you love but not for the reasons you think)

breaking this down to basic level this is what I found

original HN had left recently and had been replaced by a newly qual nurse, remaining original nurse was a lot older than new HN

My vet friend was pretty much tied up with his impending divorce and could be a bit MYF at times

remaining original nurse was non qual and because didnt have right school quals was non training ( but was a bloody good nurse) and was unhappy because some of her responsibilities had been handed to the new HN who had then delegated some of them back to her either because she couldnt do them or didnt have time. TBH I did find the new HN a bit patronising ( like a young thrush all beak and backside - I really do hope that she grew out of it at some stage?) and she was cherry picking her jobs.

Told vet what I had found and that if he treated her a bit differently she could be a really strong ally but if he didnt she could make his life hell.

Told her that boss was going through a rough patch ( which was already common knowledge) and that he really needed and valued her maturity and stability within the practice

The solution wasnt that difficult - the non qual nurse did the ANA, she was happy that the boss thought enough about her to train her ( I really dont know why she had never been asked before) she went from being majorly pissed off and feeling that she had been pushed aside to feeling that the practice actually valued her and after that went on to qualify as a nurse. She is a head nurse herself now.

Long story , sorry - but hope it illustrates how things can change within a practice very quickly and how one person feeling pushed aside, unhappy or not valued can affect the whole practice dynamics, and it doesnt even have to be work related. Was this a toxic environment? - I guess some would call it that - but it wasnt something that couldnt be fixed with a bit of work.

And the new HN - well it wasnt her fault that all this was happening, and I did feel for her - it couldnt have been easy for her starting a new job and meeting hostility head on,but I really dont think she was cut out for it, she didnt last long and went into repping as I understand

Re: All suggestions welcome!

chris beasley — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:52:56 GMT

Having been a veterinary nurse since the year dot...... qualified 1987 !!! I can honestly say its all I have ever wanted to do since I was a little girl. My husband has taken early retirement but I can't imagine not going to work every day. I do have bad days, but who doesn't? I must be one of the few fiftyish year olds who look forward to going to work.

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Roseann21 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 15:30:01 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]the environment isn't toxic, it is people that make a work place 'toxic' or 'a jolly good place to work'.[/quote]

Abso-blooming-lutely!

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Louise B — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 15:11:27 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[quote user="Roseann21"]

I too find the term "toxic environment" worrying - it seems to be a common theme on a lot of threads. What doesn't seem to occur to people is that this type of environment can exist in ANY job, it's not confined to veterinary practice, so you could go off and do something different and find the same thing. I'm also amazed that people go into vet nurse training without checking first what their salary is likely to be, then say they are going to look to work elsewhere because wages are so low!! It's a profession, you spend a long time studying, you should really know what you are getting into before you start.

I am about to leave practice myself, but I am a very very very old git (qualified 1995) so I think I have paid my dues

[/quote]

couldnt have put it better.

you are dead right with the 'toxic environment' bit. Having worked in a fish factory and a factory stitching knickers in the period immediately leaving school to getting my first full time job in practice I can say from experience there are a lot worse places out there and a lot worse jobs. There are highs and lows in any job. Theres been a few times over the years I have thought of getting out and the longest I have managed to do it is 9 months. I am convinced the only definite way of me leaving this job now is feet first in my box.

I dont blame anybody who is not truly happy in what they are doing wanting to move on to something different but I do wonder how many come into this job with their eyes fully open and not blinkered with rose coloured glasses or just see veterinary nursing as a stepping stone to something else.

[/quote]

Well said both of you. To add my pennies worth - I trained as a VN, went on and did loads of 'higher qualifications', worked in farm animal welfare and now teach vet nurse students - partly because I wanted a greater salary. The farce being that I cannot keep away from hands on vet nursing. In my spare time, I still work as a vet nurse because, fundamentally, I love being a vet nurse and doing the job of a VN. I am currently doing so work for a vet practice that allows me to spend my day doing nurse consults so I choose to drive a long distance to do this. On a sunday, I work:

10.30 - 3.30pm. I get paid about £9ph. Therefore, I earn about £9 x 5 hours = £45.00. I get taxed on this at basic rate (as a second job). This means my net income from this is £36.00 (and, at the end of the year I will have to declare this income and pay a further 9% student loan on it, reducing my net income to about £32 for that shift). I drive 30 miles each way to get to the practice. Based on Inland Revenue rates for wear and tear on the car (25p x 60 miles = £15). Therfore, I am out of the house from 9.15am - 4.45pm and, for that, I gain about £17! But, in that time, I get to potentially change the lifecourse and fate of many puppies and kittens by guiding their owners re: health and behavioural development/care (to say nothing of everything else).

Difficult to argue that I do it for the money really!!! Therefore, the only real conclusion is that I love working as a vet nurse But then I guess I have the luxury of doing hands on vet nursing as a 'hobby'. I choose to give up my spare time to nurse - I even wrote to one leading charity and offering to nurse for free for them in return for them neutering some of our local dog shelter dogs - but they never bothered to reply I also stopped doing locum work for one practice because it was too quiet - and chose instead to drive 110 miles to work in a manic practice with a team passionate about emergency medicine.I don't think I am mental - I just think vet nursing can be a wonderful career and it is what you choose to make it - whether that is in practice or in a related field of work.

It really peeves me when people say that the vet environment is toxic - the environment isn't toxic, it is people that make a work place 'toxic' or 'a jolly good place to work'. Change starts with the unhappy person: either work to change the environment or find another job where the team are nice and the workplace suits your needs. There are so many opportunities that labelling the profession in this way is just unproductive and self-limiting.

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Sal the 1st — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:19:46 GMT

[quote user="Roseann21"]

I am about to leave practice myself, but I am a very very very old git (qualified 1995) so I think I have paid my dues

[/quote]

couldnt have put it better.

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Roseann21 — Tue, 04 Jun 2013 11:20:38 GMT

I am about to leave practice myself, but I am a very very very old git (qualified 1995) so I think I have paid my dues

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 21:26:52 GMT

Thanks Laura :-)

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Laura Ringsell — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 17:35:49 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

Anybody else concerned that there are 2 student nurses here who are looking to get out of frontline nursing as soon as they qualify? - or is this the norm these days? (no disrespect to either of them - people do what they need to do, but I have to wonder what sort of percentage of qualifiers do exactly the same thing?)

[/quote] and me .....we all know that a lot leave the profession along the way but generally at 2-3 years in. Not immediately. This does not bode well for student places considering the expense and effort involved. Worrying, very worrying indeed as is the term ' toxic environment'. I am afraid I join you on the old git list....43 now, not something I admit very often! PS, well done Vicky for chasing and achieving what you wanted

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:50:38 GMT

Thanks Mark!

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 16:50:11 GMT

You have to look for them I have worked my socks off to get into the education sector though, I have almost completed my PTLLS and have done work experience in my own time at my company's college to gain experience of veterinary nursing education as it has been really difficult applying for various jobs within the education sector and not being successful. But finally, I'm in!

The opportunities are there. It's just a case of looking for them depending on your specific interest.

However, if you are happy being in practice, then fantastic. It's not that I wasn't happy being a RVN in practice; I am sad to be leaving my practice and my amazing team, but it's perfect timing as my student nurse is due to qualify next month and I wanted to hand over the practice to her and for me to work in an area that I really enjoy within veterinary nursing as I feel I have plenty of experience to assist in training the next generation of RVNs :) The position came up at a really good time and it was obviously meant to be.

I do suggest that the OP does spend at least six months in practice as a newly qualified RVN before moving on. That experience as a qualified RVN will stand you in good stead.

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Selena Carnell — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 15:03:08 GMT

Sal apparently I am an old git nurse too lol. Qualified in 1998. All I have ever done! But I don't see the opportunities that people have mentioned?

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:48:03 GMT

Vicki, that's absolutely brilliant. Well done you. :)

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 10:03:52 GMT

I honestly think it is because there are more opportunities than ever before for veterinary nurses to pursue other areas using their qualification. I began nursing in 2005 and qualified in 2009. I have been in practice for eight years, three of these as Head Nurse. I am now moving into veterinary nursing education becoming an Internal Quality Assurer, still based at the same company at their college.

I'm utilising my qualification and experience I have gained (including working in a 24-hour hospital) into training the next generation of nurses. I have always had a passion for veterinary nursing education and am looking forward to using my skills in my new role.

I think it's wonderful that nurses have opportunities to progress and develop their skills in whatever interests them. After all, human nurses have those opportunities as well, enabling them to develop into other areas within their profession.

Also, by allowing opportunities for veterinary nurses to progress, this allows the next generation to come into the profession and gives them experience in frontline nursing as the more experienced move on into specialised or management roles.

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 09:40:38 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

so if a high proportion of the newly qualified leave as soon as they qualify then does that mean what you will be left with doing actual nursing will be a high proportion of old gits like me? (tho not for one minute suggesting everybody is as bad as me)

theres hope for us old gits yet!

[/quote]

I promise you, sal, you're absolutely unique!

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Philippa — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 09:31:35 GMT

This is a very interesting forum. I have been in vet nursing since 1996 and qualified in 2003. I to am looking at other alternatives - don't get me wrong I love the work but but my working environment can also be toxic on a daily basis.

Good luck to the students that are looking for alternatives

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Fuzzyduck — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 23:02:02 GMT

Leaves me wondering why bother doing VN training at all given that it's hardly relavent to any other careers. No wonder practices don't want to put students through training when they leave not only the practice but the profession as soon as they qualify!

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Sal the 1st — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 22:06:11 GMT

theres hope for us old gits yet!

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Jenblob2 — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 21:32:57 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[/quote]

I think this is quite common these days, myself and my colleague are students and we do chat about other opportunities in the animal field. As we all know, I really think it is to do with the salary. Prices to live certainly aren't coming down and if you don't have a partner that earns particularly well either then it can make it difficult to make a living. I'm not saying its not possible, as myself and my partner are currently buying a house, however we have gone for shared ownership because of our money situation. I am on quite a good wage for a student and I won't see much of a pay rise when I qualify.

However, I am thinking of trying to fit something in alongside nursing, i.e dog walking, or feeding cats whilst owners on holiday. I will be giving this a go when I eventually move house and I hope that this will provide a little extra income and also just a slightly different scene of work.

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Steph Worsley — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 19:34:21 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[/quote]

Sal I was thinking exactly the same thing,

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Sal the 1st — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 19:10:13 GMT

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 11:31:01 GMT

I had the same problem whilst trying to enter human healthcare in particular radiography. Got told although you have radiography experience it's with animal so it doesn't count. However, now been in human healthcare 3 years and enjoy ever minute of it. I know nvq is equivalent to A levels but unsure of new qualifications. They took my NVQ as entry onto Foundation Degree so it is possible. All depends what you want from career. I wanted to progress and learn more about radiography and there were no courses at the time when I left full time nursing

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Selena Carnell — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 11:04:25 GMT

I was looking for similar lines of work last year related to or near in character to veterinary nursing, but sadly the qualification just doesn't seem to have any recognition out side the field in the uk, I did ask one interviewer why I wasn't considered and he said oh well you just deal with animals, you have no relevant experience..... Over 10 yrs in veterinary nursing but no one seems to be able to under stand that it's not just dealing with animals. Practice management I doubt you would get in to without relevant experience or management quals. Difficult one but you might have more luck over seas.

Re: All suggestions welcome!

Kayleigh Charman — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 10:17:52 GMT

Hi Mindy!

I too have been thinking about doing something different when I qualify, I love the job, but the environment I work in can sometimes be toxic so I want to be able to have a bit of a break from the veterinary nursing scene.

I was thinking perhaps a proffessional pet sitter? You get paid way more than a nurse and the fact that you are a veterinary nurse will make you more desireable. It's also an interesting line of work, moving from place to place, meeting new people and animals, nothing is the same. Obviously not ideal if you have a family or your own pets, but something to consider.

Perhap working for a groomers? Or set up your own pet ambulance service? Or maybe work with the Guide Dogs or Dogs for the Deaf? That's a rewarding job.

Have you considered any other options? Let me know as I'm still looking too.

Kay x