Pets at Home radio ad

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 27 May 2013 22:13:33 GMT

[quote user="Helen Tottey"]The majority of my work is nurse consulting and it is frustrating to have to get the vet to sign off advocate/milbamax as they are POM[/quote]

so the SQP would make no difference....

[quote user="Helen Tottey"]but I don't understand why our RVN qualification can not cover us for dispensing POM VPS products.[/quote]

[quote user="Helen Tottey"]I know I would get frustrated if every time I went into my vets (because even though I have been told to call to order the repeat px beforehand I forgot) and then had to wait while the person I entrust my pet to for keeping it alive during surgery can not give me a worming tablet that I can get from the pet superstore much quicker![/quote]

I guess this depends on individual practice protocol. The law states that an RVN cannot prescribe the product, but they (and anyone else) can give it to the client as long as it has already been prescribed. Thus if practice protocol allows it, a client would be able to pick up repeat precriptions of their worming tablet and suitable other drugs on demand.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Helen Tottey — Mon, 27 May 2013 19:14:49 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Helen Tottey"]For all those that agree, really the next step is to tget the vets/partners/owners to realise how much business they loose from not having nurses with SQP status.[/quote]

Which is?

Seriously- all it would enable nurses to do is to sell a very limited range of products to unregistered people. How often does that situation occur in most practices? I'd say that the majority of people who come in for a product are already registered and are 'frequent flyers' so can receive a repeat of their flea/worm meds again very easily. Alternatively they wait a short while to get a vet's authorisation.

But you obviously disagree?

[/quote]

The majority of my work is nurse consulting and it is frustrating to have to get the vet to sign off advocate/milbamax as they are POM but I don't understand why our RVN qualification can not cover us for dispensing POM VPS products.

I disagree that it is ok to wait a short while for the vet to sign the product off as we have to compete in the customer service stakes a lot more nowadays to prevent the frequent flyers and retain business. I know I would get frustrated if every time I went into my vets (because even though I have been told to call to order the repeat px beforehand I forgot) and then had to wait while the person I entrust my pet to for keeping it alive during surgery can not give me a worming tablet that I can get from the pet superstore much quicker!

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 27 May 2013 18:09:38 GMT

[quote user="Helen Tottey"]For all those that agree, really the next step is to tget the vets/partners/owners to realise how much business they loose from not having nurses with SQP status.[/quote]

Which is?

But you obviously disagree?

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Helen Tottey — Mon, 27 May 2013 13:39:13 GMT

I am coming to this thread a bit late but very recently BVNA have put out a statement saying that although the survey they did last year showed that the majority of VN's wanted SQP status included in the RVN qualification, they have discussed it with the relevant bodies and decided it is not possible to add to the course. This was also reported in the May edition of VN Times.

I don't think it is about wanting "extra letters" after our name and more about the fact that this was taken away from us when we are more than capable and have more than "sufficient" knowledge to properly advise our clients and not send them down the road for advice from a stranger who although they will have their SPQ qualification they do not know the client and pet like we do.

To be honest, I don't have a problem with others having the qualification but I do have a problem with RVN's not having it in ours.

For all those that agree, really the next step is to tget the vets/partners/owners to realise how much business they loose from not having nurses with SQP status. When the financial implications are understood, then hopefully the "business need" will drive this forward as there really is no reason it can not be added to the syllabus - although BVNA say it can't there is a college that do offer it and it doesn't take up a lot of extra time as BVNA state it does.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Honeybadger — Fri, 24 May 2013 21:38:29 GMT

But going back to the original post.... The thing that I don't like about the PAH adverts is that they say they are giving 'veterinary advice' I do feel that this is a bit misleading

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Honeybadger — Fri, 24 May 2013 21:36:56 GMT

An SQP is only able to sell a limited number of products (NFA-VPS and POM-VPS) Most commonly in practice this is Frontline, Advantage and Drontal. The AMTRA SQP training and keeping up with CPD points cab be expensive so I can see why vets are hesitant to train staff.

Sometimes I think there is a confusion that because a VN is an SQP they can prescribe POM-V meds such as Advocate but this is not the case. The only real benefit I see for having SQP's in practice is if there was a consulting nurse working independently for a large amount of time.

I am also involved in training SQP's and I actually think they are taught in more detail in certain areas than I was when I did my VN training.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Louise B — Fri, 24 May 2013 13:09:43 GMT

[quote user="SmegSlayer"]As for being threatened/insecure- maybe I am- shouldn't we be the ones with the advice?? We have done our exams etc. They have a bit of training and some have the SQP but where is the experience and background knowledge?[/quote]

The question with regards to prescribing/giving flea advice, etc is who has sufficient knowledge, not who has the most knowledge. Otherwise, why do we not simply insist that vets, and only vets, can give flea advice. I am pretty sure their "background knowledge/training" trumps VNs if you really want to cast out the ripples of background experience far enough. As for experience, do we really ensure that it is only the most experienced vet nurses that give flea advice? I am pretty sure that it was one of the first things I was practically taught in practice in order to make it a useful member of the vet team. I would argue that the SQP has sufficient knowledge to be advising/prescribing on flea control.

Flea control advice is not rocket science in need of several years of graduate level training and years of experience to be able to do a competent job of giving front line (as in first stage advice, not the product) advice. My concern would be that increasing the bar for expertise required before prescribing *may* improve tailoring of advice when dealing with atypical cases but at the cost of increasing the cost of flea control to the people who may well be put off buying as well as the fact that buying from a vet practice is just so darned inconvenient.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

SmegSlayer — Fri, 24 May 2013 12:01:49 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="SmegSlayer"]haven't seen any product that isn't POM-V (excluding F/Line combo) work for many years, even with environment treatment.[/quote]

And your evidence base for making this statement is?

[/quote]

Personal and professional experience. When working on the Kent coast I fostered my practice managers cat who was an indoor cat due to FIV and had always been treated with F/Line Combo. Suddenly it just didn't cut the mustard at all. Around the same time we started getting clients coming back who had been regular F/Line combo users saying they had flea problems. It eventually got so bad the company changed its preferred flea tx from F/Line combo to advocate.

I left Kent in Feb 2011 and went to London and then to Cambridgeshire as a locum and now locum part time in and around Cambridge and the story is the same in each area.

I haven't seen advantage so I didn't know it was the same active ingredient as advocate was stocked instead.

As for being threatened/insecure- maybe I am- shouldn't we be the ones with the advice?? We have done our exams etc. They have a bit of training and some have the SQP but where is the experience and background knowledge?

It's the same in the industry I'm currently studying (Forensic Science)- since the government closed the forensic science service, forensic services have been privatised which costs a lot of money to the police forces so the police are collecting evidence with the barest minimum of training.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Louise B — Fri, 24 May 2013 10:29:29 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]There really are many many effective drugs sold over the counter now. It is time to accept the status-quo and work with it.[/quote]

Totally agree. Well said. What interests me is that fostered a dog with scabies last year and was forced to treat my whole household with advocate at some considerable expense 'just in case'. Only to then go to the chemist for treatment for myself and find that permethrin 5% solution was the licensed product for humans!

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Louise B — Fri, 24 May 2013 10:28:13 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]There really are many many effective drugs sold over the counter now. It is time to accept the status-quo and work with it.[/quote]

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Sal the 1st — Fri, 24 May 2013 10:21:20 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

Maybe it isn't a necessary expense in the majority of the vet practices? Should employers fund CPD for nurses that they don't see as having a huge value added compared perhaps to other avenues of CPD? The CPD pot isn't infinite in funds. Should employers bee funding this CPD just because some nurses feel annoyed / insecure / threatened / etc by 'lay people' being able to have greater 'powers' in some areas? Surely there are lots of areas where other people/professionals have a stronger presence e.g. behaviour, physiotherapy, etc?

[/quote]

strongly agree with this statement, and the other thing to consider is that if the RCVS had wanted this 'power' to dispense to be automatically conferred to RVNs it would have been given on the inception of the SQP qualification. (or maybe it was thought by the RCVS that if they did this it would challenge the 'power' of the veterinary surgeon ).

Either way I do not feel that SQP status should be a given for RVNs - if they need it then do the qualification and if they dont then leave it alone - its not just about having the ability to string a few more letters after your name, and thats what I fear this argument has become.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Louise B — Fri, 24 May 2013 10:06:05 GMT

[quote user="SmegSlayer"]haven't seen any product that isn't POM-V (excluding F/Line combo) work for many years, even with environment treatment.[/quote]

And your evidence base for making this statement is?

[quote user="SmegSlayer"]so 'lay people' (using that term to distinguish from vn's) are able to do the SQP qualification but very few nurses have the opportunity as it is not deemed a necessary expense in the majority of practices?[/quote]

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 24 May 2013 10:02:29 GMT

[quote user="SmegSlayer"]haven't seen any product that isn't POM-V (excluding F/Line combo) work for many years, even with environment treatment.[/quote]

Really? Don't you sell advocate as an anti-flea product? That contains imidacloprid- the same drug as is in advantage, which can be bought at pet shops.

Frontline still works fine if applied correctly and routinely.

There really are many many effective drugs sold over the counter now. It is time to accept the status-quo and work with it.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Louise B — Fri, 24 May 2013 09:58:07 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]I do think RVNs should automatically have the SQP qualification as I think that it is a farce that we cannot prescribe products that SQPs can.[/quote]

You're making the assumption that all RVNs have kept up to date with prescribing legislation and relevant drugs. Some RVNs are pretty clueless and would struggle to give relevant advice. If an RVN wishes to dispense, they are free to undertake the relevant qualification to show they are capable of doing so. I think the current rules protect those RVNs who wouldn't want the responsibility of dispensing drugs, but who could be forced to do so by their employer.

[/quote]

True. A very good point Gillian.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 24 May 2013 09:55:44 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]I do think RVNs should automatically have the SQP qualification as I think that it is a farce that we cannot prescribe products that SQPs can.[/quote]

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

SmegSlayer — Fri, 24 May 2013 09:54:02 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

I think your hatred of Pets @ Home is blinding you. Some Pets @ Home staff are SQPs and are therefore qualified to give advice on flea treatment. Pets @ Home invests a huge amount of money into training its staff to be SQP qualified and the students undergo intensive training. I know because I am involved in training them.

I also disagree with you regarding selling products that don't work. I use only products that can be obtained through Pets @ Home / similar stores and I can assure you that, despite having 6 dogs and 2 cats, I do not have a problem controlling fleas on/in my animals/environment!

[/quote]

so 'lay people' (using that term to distinguish from vn's) are able to do the SQP qualification but very few nurses have the opportunity as it is not deemed a necessary expense in the majority of practices?

haven't seen any product that isn't POM-V (excluding F/Line combo) work for many years, even with environment treatment.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 24 May 2013 09:51:30 GMT

I agree- the days of saying 'stuff from pet shops doesn't work' are over and is likely to alienate clients ..... they're not daft! They know that plenty of vets also sell frontline and drontal!

Instead, I work with clients and if they want advice on over-the-counter stuff then I give it. I'll often tell them to go home and ring me with the product's name so I can give specific advice. I'd rather lose a bit off flea/worm product sales and keep the client. Also, once I have given a lot of advice regarding whatever product they bought/are going to buy, including pointing out which products to avoid like the plague, they often say 'Oh I'll just get it from you next time..... it is easier and I appreciate the advice!'

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Louise B — Fri, 24 May 2013 09:46:39 GMT

[quote user="Luke Engerer"]

I agree the VN qualification is undermined makes my blood boil too all the hard work we do we cant dispense flea and worm treatment

[/quote]

I do think RVNs should automatically have the SQP qualification as I think that it is a farce that we cannot prescribe products that SQPs can.

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Louise B — Fri, 24 May 2013 09:44:23 GMT

Re: Pets at Home radio ad

Luke Engerer — Fri, 24 May 2013 09:38:03 GMT

I agree the VN qualification is undermined makes my blood boil too all the hard work we do we cant dispense flea and worm treatment