working on call bank holiday

Re: working on call bank holiday

Claire Cameron — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:31:52 GMT

[quote user="Louisesadieandshads"]

[quote user="Lauren Carroll"]

This is just a personal opinion but i don’t believe that we should be paid if we do not go into the clinic/look after in patients when we are on call. i think this for 2 reasons.

1) we are free to do as we please when we are on call ie we can still catch up with friends, have dinner, watch a movie (as long as we know we could have to leave before it ends) etc

2) we should not charge the boss for us sit around, not perform any tasks for the practice or not making him any profit

[/quote]

Not completely true. We cannot have a drink (or more) with friends. You cannot relax. You can arrange to do anything that you might regret if you get called away (i.e. buying a theatre ticket, etc), you have to stay within a reasonable distance, etc.

Of course the boss should pay. He/she is paying us for the inconvenience of the above and a) the reduced inconvenience to them of having to ring round 'til they do find a vet or nurse to assist, and b) the improved ability to provide a good service to their clients. How many clients would vote with their feet if their dog came in as a GDV and there was no one to assist the vet and the dog dies as a consequence?

I guess I am too long in the tooth now as I would not do on call for £10 nevermind for free. Its not worth the inconveniance to me. That's what emergency clinics and veterinary hopsitals are for - designated oncall night staff.

[/quote]

my thoughts entirely. my life is on hold whilst i am on call, i firmly believe we should be paid to be on call, how many other jobs dont pay?! i dont know any, personally. for free your boss gets the knowledge that we will be there in minutes on receiving a phone call and for me that means making no plans, staying in and not answering my phone to prevent blocking my line x

Re: working on call bank holiday

Caro Laithwaite VN — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:39:51 GMT

All dates and further down an explain about Scotland and NI and what dates they differ on have lost track of someone someplace asking about what days the BH were on:

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/bankholidays.html

Re: working on call bank holiday

Louise B — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:07:51 GMT

[quote user="Lauren Carroll"]

This is just a personal opinion but i don’t believe that we should be paid if we do not go into the clinic/look after in patients when we are on call. i think this for 2 reasons.

1) we are free to do as we please when we are on call ie we can still catch up with friends, have dinner, watch a movie (as long as we know we could have to leave before it ends) etc

2) we should not charge the boss for us sit around, not perform any tasks for the practice or not making him any profit

[/quote]

Re: working on call bank holiday

xhappysvn21x — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:55:01 GMT

i just thought i would add that if any one else is having same problems on a call bank hol basis, u are at least intitled to a day in lieu! there is a regulation, working time regulation 1998. double check contract too, cba are very good for extra support do it sooner than later dont hide your head in the mud u may be entitled to something little or more!

Re: working on call bank holiday

xhappysvn21x — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:43:29 GMT

WOW thank u very much for every1's reply it has helped alot, i had a meeting with the head nurse and worked something out. i am now in for monday bank holiday and am getting paid double time instead of nothing. i wish we could have a retainer as i live away from my family and visiting them would mean me being 1hr away if on call which is not good in a emergency situation also i cant drink as i would have to drive. i felt something had to be said as i am the youngest nurse there getting paid 5 quid a hour which doesnt cover me doing on call once a week. were as others are qualified with a decent wage were u could say they basically being paid for it? if that makes sense. i no the practice make a fortune and treat the nurses like shit when it comes to hours and pay. if i am called out average i would get 50 quid the client would get charged 110 quid for me being there, they make profit on the nurses! but they do pay for our fuel. i still dont think its enough when u are on call once a week and get called out roughly 4-5- times a year. but hey there u go, everywhere is different but i think being in and being paid nicer on a b hol than nothin at all to do nowt until called or not called at all : )

Re: working on call bank holiday

Fleabee99 — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:31:13 GMT

[quote user="FINNIGAN"]

we used to do on call and get nothing for it we could be called in for 5 mins or 5 hours but wouldnt get a thing, now things have changed we get a £10 retainer for being on call on a week day and £20 retainer for sat and sund, if we get called in we get an hourly rate for the time we are there, if we have to check in patients then we get paid for the time we are there too. works well and all are v happy with that, im on call this weekend and get a £20 retainer for bank hol days.

[/quote]

i would be happy with that

Re: working on call bank holiday

Kirstie Sherman — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:27:11 GMT

Sal 1st, you have hit the nail on the head with your first post. I absolutely agree.

Re: working on call bank holiday

FINNIGAN — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:37:19 GMT

Re: working on call bank holiday

Lauren Carroll — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 06:26:27 GMT

This is just a personal opinion but i don’t believe that we should be paid if we do not go into the clinic/look after in patients when we are on call. i think this for 2 reasons.

1) we are free to do as we please when we are on call ie we can still catch up with friends, have dinner, watch a movie (as long as we know we could have to leave before it ends) etc

2) we should not charge the boss for us sit around, not perform any tasks for the practice or not making him any profit

Re: working on call bank holiday

Lauren Carroll — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 05:28:58 GMT

At my practice we have a simular arrangement. we are on call for a particular time period within this time we are free to do what we want as long as we can come in once we are called. we only get paid for the time that we are there and the clients has to pay these fees. for example if we went in for a c-section we would get paid about $120 (56 pounds) for the first four hours and then $22 (11 pounds) every hour after that, depending on the time of day/night.

Re: working on call bank holiday

Fleabee99 — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:00:59 GMT

now thats a different point, a small fee may be accepted if you sleep there but if your having to commute then a fee and petrol should be the least you should get, but i supose you commute when going to the shift even if you do sleep there anyway, im confused now

minimum wage every hour your there! thats my final offer lol

Re: working on call bank holiday

Sal the 1st — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:11:20 GMT

Please dont get me wrong Tracy - have done quite a bit of ooh and some of that for free - and then I found I was being taken advantage of, ie 'just had a call from a client - looks like it will be a caesar, just pop along to the surgery and let them in, set up and I will be there soon'. (vet drives but I dont, I have to get a taxi in and whilst the vet doesnt like to get called out and go in the building alone because of safety issues it is perfectly ok for me to? - client is charged a nurse call out of 50 quid and my 'pay' for the call out is the 10 quid for the taxi)

Re: working on call bank holiday

Sal the 1st — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:04:21 GMT

sorry mine took so long to write - comp crashed a couple of times!

Re: working on call bank holiday

Tracy Windler RVN — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:01:19 GMT

Umm, not sure who I'm replying to now! But re: on call. We have 24 hour nursing at my current practice, but at previous practices, if we were on call we were either on call unpaid, or paid £10 retainer, with double or time and a half if called out. I really think at the least you should be paid time and a half +petrol money if you are called out to assist an emergency. They could justifiably charge that to the client. But, I have been known to do on-calls for nothing and find myself at work doing a caesarean and then not booked my overtime. I put it down to life experiences!

I've found that the most rewarding jobs, where you get to "be the nurse you want to be!" often involve more ooh and unsociable hours, so it depends what you want in life.

Re: working on call bank holiday

Fleabee99 — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:54:35 GMT

i totally agree sal, couldnt of said better!!

Re: working on call bank holiday

Sal the 1st — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:52:14 GMT

have been following the thread and kept out of this - but

yes to some degree the job is a vocation, and yes some of us had it hard when we started (and some are still having it hard) but you know life moves on, conditions change, circumstances change - knowing how difficult it was for me and how soul destroying this job could be ( but not always, it had lots of good times too) I decided very early on that if I ever found myself in the position of being in charge of trainees I would do the best I could by them to make sure they had a happier start than I did.

In agreement with previous poster I do not agree with the put up and shut up attitude - that I have seen all too often. I do agree that a trainee has to show commitment to the practice, but I dont agree that they should be used like slaves.

If done reasonably (I stress reasonable , it shouldnt turn into an endless list of impossible demands) I totally agree with nurses (trainee or otherwise) trying to improve their conditions (wage and or hours) - I dont think that those who are working genuinely bad hours for bad pay are whinging, they just want to be brought into line with what others are lucky enough to receive (I do feel however that as with any job there will always be some people who are not happy with what they have got - even if their conditions in comparison with others are actually quite good)

I do not believe in staff 'donating ' their time for free (I was stupid enough to do this in the past - it helps no one). If you have 1 nurse that will work past her hours without pay to get the job done what does it really mean a) she is committed to the job and the employer, b) the other nurses dont care c) an employer will notice her and she will be better thought of or d) what she is doing will then be expected of everybody, and those that dont fall into line will be seen as lazy or lacking in commitment. - If staff are having to work over their hours on a regular basis (with/without pay) it suggests that either the rota needs work on it or that the practice is understaffed.

I also think it is important to remember that wages/conditions can only be improved in line with what the practice can truly afford (not always the same as what the boss says they can afford!)

sorry for the ramble

Re: working on call bank holiday

Fleabee99 — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:48:48 GMT

i see it as a calling too shearer so you aint silly

Re: working on call bank holiday

Fleabee99 — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:47:12 GMT

ahh i see sorry its just me being thick!! lol my mum always says you may have alevels but no common sense!! which is right lol

Re: working on call bank holiday

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:42:57 GMT

It certainly was Shearer. I am off to bed now as all this debating can make you tired

Re: working on call bank holiday

Kirstie Sherman — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:40:18 GMT

Ok STRVN, I see your view too....good debate though!!

Sarah, by referring to vet nursing as a vocation I wasnt referring to qualifications at all. I was referring to it as a professional calling (sounds ridiculous I know, but thats the definition).

Re: working on call bank holiday

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:33:28 GMT

Vocation means a person who is suited trained and qualified to do a job. It can also mean in effect "a calling" as in the priesthood, or to become a nun.

Re: working on call bank holiday

Fleabee99 — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:30:53 GMT

as with the math side of it aswell

Re: working on call bank holiday

Fleabee99 — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:30:02 GMT

just wanted to ask by vet nursing being a vocation does this mean just an NVQ? just me being thick but if thats whats being said then its unfair really as coming from someone who has done biology at alevel, vet nursing should be considered an equivilant in my opinion as their is some pretty academic stuff in that NVQ

just a thought

Re: working on call bank holiday

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:29:31 GMT

If you read my post again, I have actually said that it was not you who implied it about students.

Also I never said that it was not a vocation, merely that it would not pay the bills.And a lot of nurses do vote with their feet by leaving the profession which is sad.

I am not actually disagreeing with you either, I am just seeing it from another perspective.

Re: working on call bank holiday

Kirstie Sherman — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:22:49 GMT

I did not, and would never say that students should "put up or shut up".

I agree that ooh work should be paid....but the point I'm trying to make is that there is such a diverse difference in payment/ conditions and hours for students and RVNs in practices across the country. We wouldnt be debating if this wasnt the case.

It is up to the individual nurse to decide what is acceptable and vote with their feet if not happy.

Being a VN is a vocation.....I will not back down on this, I dont think this means that I agree with nurses being paid rubbish wages, after all I am a nurse myself.

I think we should agree to disagree.....everyone is entitled to their opinion and emails can be misunderstood.