Vets taking VNs jobs

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

oconnoanan — Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:48:02 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

I think there is a very fine line between being loyal to a practice and allowing the practice to exploit you - to me voluntary for more than a month on full time hrs and much longer than a year waiting to start studying has crossed that line. Its not good for you and its not good for those that come after you

[/quote]

Defo exploitation big time! Free cleaner/general skivvy... was unemployed at the time (after 5 years of college degree and masters degree) so it was something to do so volunteered - then ended up on a 40 hour weekly rota, got dumped with all the horrible shifts (inc X-mas and new years)... couldn't even get time off to go for an interview for a real job! Terrible abuse and bullying too.... so happy not to be there any more - left without even a thank you card or a reference after 9 months. Nearly put me off veterinary. Thankfully ended up volunteering in another place and after nearly a year am finally on their paid rota... minimum wage and its not a training practice, but gotta start somewhere. Hopefully will get into a training practice eventually, fingers crossed!! [god my life sounds pathetic!]

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Craig McDonald — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 22:12:12 GMT

My friend at uni was really being exploited by a practice doing none of her clinical training, she was cleaning the whole practice and working such long hours but the practice knew she couldn't find another degree placement so she was a free cleaner and there was nothing she could really do, closest she got to theatre was to clean it at the end of the day. Lucky she now has a new placement but she spent two years of degree their.

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Sal the 1st — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:53:25 GMT

I have no problem with eagerness to learn and a passion for the job but please folks dont let practices exploit that

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Craig McDonald — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:19:02 GMT

It's sad that some students loose motivation while some are so eager for a position. I know I really struggled to find a training practice, enrolled on degree and still found it hard to find a placement went to one which had 4 students so all the nurses were fighting over the cases so when I was offered the degree placements at a PDSA clinic I jumped at it and learnt so much and worked hard on those placements was rare to leave on time because if something interesting was coming down I was staying helping cleaning and hoping to learn something new. I was borderline too eager but wouldn't have had it any other way because it meant that I learnt more so will hopefully be a better nurse from it (keeping my fingers crossed for osce results on Thursday!)

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Sal the 1st — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:10:54 GMT

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

oconnoanan — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:56:05 GMT

[quote user="emmadilemma"]

I worked my ass off for four years before my boss would let me start studying!

[/quote]

I worked my ass off as a full time 40 hr week non - paid volunteer for 2 whole years before I even started earning a minimum wage..... and we don't even have the opportunity of training where we are....I'd be delighted to work on min wage with training potential and can guarantee I'd work my ass off big time!!!

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Helen Tottey — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:27:28 GMT

[quote user="NickyVN"]

Not wanting to sound old here but I think a lot of the issue is that many young people do not want to work hard - they think they can sit back and get their qualification handed to them on a plate. They are so used to being waited on hand and foot at home, and having everything given to them they don't see why they should have to work for a living.

Before I get shot down in flames I KNOW that isn't the case with everyone and there are some young people out there willing to work hard but unfortunately they are becoming fewer and farther between. Getting off the soap box now!!

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Couldn't agree more. I do think that it is very difficult to find people who understand the meaning of hard work and not just wanting "glory work". I used to have to clean the car park, do the vets shopping, clean, observe, do what i was told and EARN my placement. Never did i say i couldn't do something and wouldn't have dreamed of leaving when my shift finished if there was still work to do.

In saying this, there are the dedicated people out there but it is very difficult to spot them when they all start out "dedicated"

This doesn't mean we should give up looking though or we won't have a profession. We also need to get the practices back on side

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

emmadilemma — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 17:31:08 GMT

I worked my ass off for four years before my boss would let me start studying!

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Sal the 1st — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 17:00:38 GMT

[quote user="oconnoanan"]

Maybe employers should consider offering a non-paid internship/work experience for a month with a view to hiring as a VNA with potential for training - contingent on performance... that way they'd weed out the wannabees from the actual hard workers!

[/quote]

This is exactly how it was done when I started out in 1984, and you had to 'survive' a minimum of 6mths at the practice after you had been taken on before you were even allowed to apply to the RCVS to train

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Sal the 1st — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 16:55:27 GMT

[quote user="NickyVN"]

[/quote]

I am afraid I would tend to agree with you in quite a few cases - and I feel a big factor in this was the dropping of the minimum age for trainees to 16, ok its brilliant if the practice wants funding for their trainee but the reality is the practice will end up paying for it in ways they cant even imagine, and it makes it more difficult for older trainees who do know what work is about to get a place.

In many cases when you take somebody fresh from school they dont know what the hell has hit them when they start their first job, if you can carefully guide them and nurture them they stand a chance, but thats dependant on having somebody who has the time to devote to them and also taking on somebody who is genuinely wanting to learn (and it isnt always obvious at interview) if you start out with a lippy, gitty little know it all who prefers to watch everybody else work you are fighting an uphill battle. The schools arent preparing them for what a working life will be, work experience is a 'bit of a laugh' in most cases and they just havn't had the time or the experience to develop a work ethic, which comes with maturity. Some of these youngsters go onto to make really good nurses tho if you can get them through the 'terrible teens' stage

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

oconnoanan — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:58:57 GMT

How do non-motivated people end up working in these coveted trainee positions, that other people would sell off organs for to get into!!!!??? have heard this from a few people now.... there is such a shortage of trainee positions and an overwhelming number of interested candidates desperate to get into the field. Maybe employers should consider offering a non-paid internship/work experience for a month with a view to hiring as a VNA with potential for training - contingent on performance... that way they'd weed out the wannabees from the actual hard workers!

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Nicola Smith — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 15:46:52 GMT

We have been having issues regarding trainees over the last 12-18 months and am now at the point if the one we have just offered the job to doesn't work out I will seriously consider not training anymore. We had over 100 applicants the last time we advertised a trainee position. Of those there were very few who either had the grades or who could actually write a CV without making spelling mistakes such as vetinary!! Of these you take on someone who has been waiting for a training position for 2 years then quit after 2 weeks as it is too much like hard work!! Prior to this we had a trouble making teenager who thought everything was below her and didn't see why she should have to clean, who caused major rifts in the nursing team with tale telling.

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Helen Tottey — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:28:59 GMT

I agree - it's on my list :D I'm planning on asking around to try and find out why more practices don't train SVNs (or emply VNAs and don't help them officially train of they want to) - it's not an easy one to ask practices about though! (Hassle and finance is the easy answer I guess, but I'm sure there's more to it than that). The practice that i trained in and now back working at have stopped all trainees apart from ones coming in block placements doing the degree course. Strongly disagree but this has come from having problems with students. I know the argument is that a student is only as good as the trainer/training/practice but the hassles they have had haven't all been down to these things. Generally the argument is that the time it takes a QVN to train someone and do all the NPL/paperwork and then problems caused by the students = HASSLE. Its a real shame if you ask me as there are massive positives too and not all students have caused a problem. i am hoping that this is a "knee-jerk" reaction and in time it will change back. The pratice is a large hospital with 5 branches so loads of potential for teaching :(

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Sal the 1st — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 23:40:17 GMT

[quote user="oconnoanan"]

Are any practices capable of taking on passionate interested people, with all the potential, scientific background, customer service skills, etc. How do we bridge the gap between a shortage of qualified trained nurses, and a large number of potentially interested non-qualified candidates who are eager to train and learn?

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easy make the training more applicable to what the veterinary practices employing nurses actually want, cut out some of the irrelevant detail that has swamped the qualification, the complications, bring down the cost and make it easier for practices to train. I do hope with the departure of Libby we get something that allows nurses to nurse again

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

oconnoanan — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 23:05:25 GMT

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

oconnoanan — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 23:01:21 GMT

I'd love to train as an SVN. It seems mad that there is such a shortage of qualified people, yet dozens of us who are mad to get the opportunity to train..... what's going on there?

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Craig McDonald — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 00:26:57 GMT

I have heard about this a few times now and after speaking to a new grad vet he said himself that VN's have a complete different set of skills to vets and he found it very hard to locum as a VN because he was never taught the VN skills. I find it interesting how different the two roles really are.

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Laura Graham — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:24:33 GMT

There was a vet who had trained in Europe in the first practice I worked in as a Locum RVN, and he was wearing "greens" too, he had told me that practices didn't want to hire him as a vet, because he'd still need supervision with surgery, and no-one has time, or staff to do that.

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

maylane — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:08:35 GMT

I work for a multi disciplinary referral practice that is committed to training SVN's and making sure they turn out nurses with excellent skills. We have the opportunity to work in all areas of the hospital with first opinion and referral clinicians who have a great attitude towards nurses. I think there is a turn towards using newly qualified vets as interns for night work. Many RVN's don't like OOH, it rarely pays well and for those career nurses that can put up with the average nurses low salary for the long run, they often have families at home, meaning night work and difficult rotas are not practical. Finding dedicated night nurses is difficult. If there are out of work new grads and not enough nurses, could this be a solution? It's preferable to have an RVN as a night nurse over an intern, but if you can't get an RVN, what do you do?

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Emma Cooper — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:12:31 GMT

Sal and Helen,

I'm getting on it. Any more help or suggestions would be much appreciated...

Em

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

oconnoanan — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 20:47:34 GMT

Yes I agree that this is becoming increasingly frequent. A lot of vets that qualified in the EU aren't able to get jobs in their native country, or go abroad for Internships and to improve their English. They're quite happy to take a nursing job, as at least its money and experience. When we were informed that a newly qualified vet couldn't work "as a nurse" we determined that they were working as a "veterinary assistant" so therefore covered legally and entitled to do all the nursing jobs required. The only prob we have had so far is a bit of a language barrier when dealing with clients, particularly on the phone, although that person is actually very good in all respects otherwise. And is also fluent in talking native language to clients originally from same country as her. So they could in theory actually offer a multi-lingual veterinary service now.

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Helen Tottey — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 20:14:25 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

To me this is the bit that really needs looking at - how about running something on not only why vets dont train their nurses anymore but what would encourage them to train their nurses in the future? And dont just concentrate on the referral practices who 9 times out of 10 pick off everybody elses qualified nurses rather than training their own ask everybody - to me that would be a good article worth reading if everybody was involved -and why stop at one article there is plenty of mileage in it

[/quote]

Sounds a great idea.

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Sal the 1st — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:04:12 GMT

[quote user="Emma Cooper"]

Sadly, the response that comes from a number of vets is "we can't find the RVNs" - ask them if they're a TP and plenty say "it's a hassle to train SVNs"....hmm...

[/quote]

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Emma Cooper — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 12:27:06 GMT

Hi guys,

Thanks for the posts...Alana, thanks for that - sorry I missed your earlier thread, food for thought!

Sal - I know it's not new and we've done it before (I've been reminded of the Romanian vet that the Guardian picked up) - but it's an issue that's been talked about at a few high profile events recently - so worth us looking into to see if there are any figures, new thoughts etc.

Sadly, the response that comes from a number of vets is "we can't find the RVNs" - ask them if they're a TP and plenty say "it's a hassle to train SVNs"....hmm...

Re: Vets taking VNs jobs

Sal the 1st — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 20:14:41 GMT

http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/forums/t/7197.aspx?PageIndex=1

there you go - a few years old now!