Dog bite

Re: Dog bite

Sleepless and Worried — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 07:45:12 GMT

Thanks Kate. x x

Re: Dog bite

kate l fleetham — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 18:45:36 GMT

Hi,

Think I know u....

Wanted 2 say chin up and stay strong! If I'm right and it is u; we heard what happened (the basics) and were horrified. I know we had our differences but real disappointed for u; u r a great nurse; I'm sorry to hear this has ruined it 4 u. Hope other nurses r backing u up,

Take care

Re: Dog bite

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:57:43 GMT

Glad you feel a bit better. I am not sure if l suggested Samaritans, go onto their website and have loads of numbers not just the main national 24hr one. They have helped me loads over Brian, mum and dad and all the mess l was going through. You can ring and bawl down the line and you dont feel silly.

Muzzle l like baskerville never have trusted mikki as the end is open and those front teeth can still get you.

Re: Dog bite

lizabarf — Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:56:37 GMT

I often think that it would be a lot kinder to them and more safe for us if we had some sort of blow dart or dart gun that we could use with a sedative rather than have to physically touch them, hope your ok Selina it sounds very traumatic x

Re: Dog bite

Selena Carnell — Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:33:46 GMT

I had a horrendous PTS yesterday in a bull terrier staffie pit bull cross... Not sure what breed it was in origin but it was a bull breed of about 30 kg. The dog was in for PTS due to aggression issues, it was brought in in the am surgery but it was fairly obvious we were not going to get an I/v so the dog was given 6 acp tablets to be given later and brought back in for evening surgery. Evening surgery the owner put on a muzzle but the dog quickly got it off and as I went to help tighten it the dog lunged at me pinning me in the corner of the room, the owner unable to control it was just letting it go towards me, myself and the vet had to shout at him to tighten the lead. At this point the owners were distress... I was a shade of white! So the dog was taken out back and pulled against a door but so powerful that it could still pull round and bit a chuck out of the door. We some how managed to get approx 6ml chanazine, but the dog still fighting even with a dog catcher to pull the head away. Eventuall we managed to give a large volume I/p then finally I/c. It was traumatic for us and the dog. A stunning looking dog that had seriously been let down, by its owners. I don't know how we could have made it less traumatic with out having some sort of long handled syringe and needle or a crash shield! I might be recommending another dog catcher then we can have one either side which give more control. This all follows me getting bitten by a scared German shepherd last week too.

Re: Dog bite

Sleepless and Worried — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:00:33 GMT

I cannot thank you all enough for your help and support. It has really been a tough time but feeling that I have people who can understand what I went through/am going through has been comforting. I had a nice and quiet time at my Mum's with plenty of tea and cake. Nothing quite like being fed yummy food alternating with huge cuddles from your Mum, is there?

I am doing what you suggested and taking small steps (thanks Caro , that was one of the best bits of advice ever as I was rushing myself into believing I was better when I wasn't).

To everyone who has said it's not my fault (even though it feels like it), another huge thank you for helping me feel less guilty. That's a work in progress still...

Big thanks to all the people lending out advice about what you do in practice, that will help me avoid situations where it could happen again (feel sick at the thought..).

Finally, I want to say to ANYONE who has a problem. Share it here on the forum. Don't be afraid. Share it here. Let it out. Share it here.

Cheers everyone (and my first smiley since it happened... )

Re: Dog bite

Jenny Cook RVN — Sun, 17 Mar 2013 19:39:07 GMT

Hello I hope u are getting the help and support that u need in this difficult time. But don't blame yourself over what has happened... I hope you are doing ok? We are all here to listen and give advice, which has all been good from what u have read. Take care xxx

Re: Dog bite

Fuzzyduck — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 10:51:57 GMT

I prefer Baskerville muzzles as not only can you leave them on as the dog can pant etc but they are also easier to get on as the muzzle opening is larger, also mikki muzzles have to be the exact size of the dogs muzzle which is hard to guess and if you are wrong and the muzzle ends up being too big the dog can still bite. Always make sure they are tightened and dogs keep their front feet away from them as they can pull them off, if left alone in a kennel a muzzle and buster collar combo can stop them from being able to get them off and we always leave an extended lead attached to the front of the kennel to easily be able to get them out. We also have a dog catcher for unhandleable dogs and all aggressive dogs are clearly labeled with signs on the front of the kennel. If you can't get near a dog to muzzle it and the owners can't muzzle it then we would pull the lead through a door and sedate it injecting in to it's rear end while the head is restrained. That said with all the best intentions things can go wrong and I have been bitten by both dogs and cats, luckily none of them too badly, just a few puncture wounds. I don't think anyone is really to blame often when people get bitten, animals can be unpredictable and it is the nature of the job almost as even the nicest dog/cat can react badly when in a stressful situation. I hope you are getting some professional help and can move forward

Re: Dog bite

Clair Crowley — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 09:13:25 GMT

We flag on their computer notes as CARE and also have a snapping gator icon For known aggressive dogs we will insist that the dog is muzzled before entering The surgery as we also have a duty of care to protect other clients, where possible we Have them enter through the rear entrance and then go straight into consult room To avoid them hanging around in waiting room and getting stressed and more reactive. I prefer baskerville muzzles as these enable the dog to pant - not being able to do so can Increase its already heightened stress and anxiety levels. If the dog is in kennels the kennel is marked with a red CARE flag and two leads are attached to the dog so that you can pick the lead up from outside the kennel and if neccesary They keep the baskerville muzzle on. Most of the time we take the dogs into prep area for handling and treating away for the owner and Try and keep the number of people in The room and handling dog to a minimum to avoid over Crowding it obviously ensuring you have enough people for safe restraint. I really hope you get the help and suppoirt that you need from colleagues and family and wishing you A speedy recovery.

Re: Dog bite

Helen Tottey — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 08:37:20 GMT

[quote user="Sleepless and Worried"]

I was talking to a nurse today, who I used to work with, and she said that it was important to check we used the right type of muzzle for the dog. The muzzle came off and that's why the dog was able to bite me. I haven't really thought about it as being relevant coz I was told the muzzle had been checked and there was nothing wrong. I am wondering if this is what was the cause of the problem of it coming off? I didn't chose the muzzle or put it on.

[/quote]

Oh my, it sounds like you have had a nighmare. my main thought reading all the great advice and your comments though is it sounds like you are blaming yourself for everything - IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT whatever happened.

Dogs are unpredictable and we all know how dangerous they can be when frightened and dealing with them when they are like this is very difficult and i don't think anyone would say there is an ideal way. it is dependant on the dog, the team you are working with and what you have available. This has already been said i thinkg, but it is the vets responsibilty to ensure staff and client safety and that can mean , you do not treat it however if the owner is not available or is not able to handle either the responsibility is still the vet.

It is one of those horrendous things when something like this happens and certainly practice protocols should be reviewed but in some cases it is no ones fault (obviously if no known previous or signs shown).

My personal preference is flagging on notes but never 100% rely on this as there is always a 1st time. if unsure when admit dog leave a rope lead on taking care if can not get itself caught in kennel so you can get it out without getting too close to head and making the dog feel cornered. as already said on here - 2 leads are good. Baskerville muzzles are my muzzle of choice and if need to leave it on while in the kennel put a buster collar on too so dog can't get it off. baskerville muzzles are kinder for longterm use as can still pant and breathe easily.

If sedated remember to LEAVE MUZZLE ON, i have been bitten by a sedated dog that had no idea what it was doing, just reacted, clamped onto my finger and went back to sleep again!

Again, want to say please do not blame yourself

good luck and i hope you heal well (physically and mentally

Re: Dog bite

Ilovehorses — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:09:56 GMT

We generally use mikki muzzles but do have some baskerville muzzles to hand if needed. Don't beat yourself up about feeling shaken up and scared of what has happened to you, yes you are a vet nurse BUT you are a human being like anyone else and your feelings are natural. Really hope you get some help and support with this and glad that you're going to your mums xxx

Re: Dog bite

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:17:27 GMT

I prefer a very tight mikki in a short nosed dog, a baskerville in a long nosed dog. The main thing is that it is pulled very tight.

As I said in my post, in a known very aggressive dog I would use chemical restraint for anything other than a very quick procedure. Muzzles are always able to fail. My only dog bite (to date) was due to a muzzle failure in a german shepherd dog. Luckily it was a police dog and it just held my arm without biting down too hard - it hurt but no skin punctures. That was 12 years ago - I learnt an important lesson that day!

Re: Dog bite

Rachel Everitt — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 13:47:54 GMT

I prefer baskerville muzzles, some people prefer mikki muzzles.You usually have to adjust the strap for it to fit properly.

Re: Dog bite

Sleepless and Worried — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 13:11:23 GMT

I have been allowed to take a bit of holiday leave so am going to stay with my Mum for a few days. Managed to get some sleep last night (Night Nurse as recommended by my friend). I know I shouldnt but it worked.

How do you all decide which sort of muzzle to use, who choses it and what different types of muzzles do you keep?

Thanks.

Re: Dog bite

Rachel Everitt — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:19:51 GMT

Agree with everybody's protocols on aggressive dogs.Definately seek help with your emotional trauma.

Re: Dog bite

Sleepless and Worried — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:19:09 GMT

Thanks Ilovehorses, I will try the Pet bereavement help-line - the email thing. I seem to find it easier to write about it than talk about it. I have googled it and got the details.

Thanks all, again.

Re: Dog bite

Vikki Jones — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:22:53 GMT

I hope your ok :) If we know of an agressive dog we put a care or watch note to flash up on their clinical notes also the size muzzle to use in order to prevent aggrevation to the dog, if the owner can handle it we wil sedate the dog while with the owner but we still keep a muzzle on after I got bitten by a sedated dog that woke up bit my hand and fell asleep clamping its mouth shut that I had to pull my hand out as a student! We are lucky in the fact that we are a mixed practice and therefore have alot of strong men used to dealing with cows if a dog is that bad we will put a dog catcher on it and get it against a wall to be able to inject it however this is last resort We also put a watch on the kennel and op board by their name :) and let their owners collect them from the kennel themselves when discharging xx

Re: Dog bite

Ilovehorses — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:49:16 GMT

Could you also call the Pet bereavement helpline (Blue Cross) I know it's a different situation to one that they would normally deal with but it will be in confidence and it sounds like you need someone to talk to. You can talk via email if you don't want to speak to someone directly. I went through a bad time when I got badly attacked by a cat, didn't ever want to handle a cat again but I did get through it. With regards to dealing with aggressive dogs at work it's very much the same as others have said. Note on computer/note on consent form/hospital sheet and op board. Also verbally warn people. Two or three leads on dog so leads can be attached outside kennel. Muzzle or big buster collar (very good for muzzle phobic dogs and works suprisingly well as you can get behind dog and restrain). Also have had to pull lead through door or trap dogs head in door before to be able to get i/m sedation in.

Re: Dog bite

Sleepless and Worried — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:16:28 GMT

Thank you very much for your information and advice. If anyone else has any ideas or can tell me what they do please please say, thank you.

So stressed. Not sleeping well, waking up and worrying about everything. On top of it I hv lots of other crap going on in my life so this is just racking up the agony. I am having to be strong and outwardly appear to be (that's me - I just try to cope) but inside me is another matter, shattered. Have taken advice. I have booked an appointment with my doctor about my head mess but that is 2 weeks away yet. I came on here to see if you all cud giv me advice to try stop it ever happening again. Trying to be logical and unemotional and sort it out. Some days are better than others but all are s**t..

Its utterly horrible. No winners. Dogs dead and I couldn't even say my sorries and goodbyes to her body.

I love staffies and will defend them to the day I die, part of me has already died along with the dog.

Re: Dog bite

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:15:09 GMT

I was thinking that Sal.

If you are off work with your physical/mental injuries, those at work may be oblivious to your distress. Or not wanting to bother you at the moment.

If it hasn't happened already, you need to sit down with those involved and have a really good conversation about your thoughts on the matter. Outside of work time preferably, to ensure their undivided attention. Sometimes, stewing on the whys and wherefores just makes everything 10x worse.

Document the meeting (dictaphone if poss so no one is distracted with wriing) and if you are unhappy with protocols used and situations you was put in, then as Caro said, you need to contact the HSE.

I don't know how long it has been since the incident, but these things can affect us far more than we'd think and I do hope you are getting some support.

I response to asking about our protocols, the animal's notes are 'flagged' if it has shown any aggression and that will always remain on it's record. The whole practice is aware that human safety and health comes first, so if an animal cannot be treated at the practice without jeopardising staff safety (usually because the dog is huge and the owner is also terrified of it) then PTS will be recommended - and if they refuse they will be asked to go elsewhere. The Police would be notified. If the animal can be managed, then it is difficult to say what will happen as it is ALWAYS the treating vet's decision on how. Afterall, it is their responsibility to ensure the safety of the owner and other staff in their decision making. Generally, animals will always be chemically sedated before any examination. Injections are given at arms length with the head 'fixed' somehow - slip leads through doors works well. Kennels are marked very clearly with red 'DO NOT OPEN' and 'WATCH' signs.

In these kind of situations, the senior staff usually take over as experience and confidence does help. Everybody else is expected to scatter to the winds- not usually a problem!

Hope that helps. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and animals will always manage to surprise us. I do hope, however, that you don't feel you have been put in a dangerous situation when it could have been avoided - that must be very hard to accept.

Re: Dog bite

Sal the 1st — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 01:27:52 GMT

[quote user="Sleepless and Worried"]

Am in bits mentally over this. Physical harm is healing, mind is shattered.

[/quote]

are you getting any help with this?

Re: Dog bite

Caro Laithwaite VN — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:11:44 GMT

If you were in hospital or off work as a result of whatever happened to you you need to notify the Health and Safety executive about it under RIDDor esp. if you may be bringing legal proceedings which your query may well be leading to about protocols.

All the best with your recovery take things in small steps.

Re: Dog bite

NJ_VN — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:06:46 GMT

You poor thing, you sound like you've had a rough time. In our practice, any dog which has displayed aggressive tendencies before has a "CARE" warning flash up when entering the patients card. Any specific incidents are written in the clinical to fully warn the next person to deal with the animal. If the owner is able to, we will ask them to muzzle the patient before removing them for treatment. If it is for GA, some owners will ask to stay while the animal is sedated. If the patient is already admitted, we put a lead clipped onto their own lead to hang out of the kennel, so you can get control without being near the collar.The kennel will have a "CARE" sign, and it will be written on the days ops board. If not muzzled, muzzling is attempted (either by initial use of basket/nylon muzzle or drop a tie muzzle over) If need be, we will injectt the dog through the kennel door. with regard to who is handling the dog, tends to be whoever is in charge of that case and whichever nurse is available, however if it is a large dog then the biggest members of staff will help restrain. we try to keep the environment as calm as possible, so not too many people crowding the dog and talking in quiet voices..hope this helps!

It is horrible to be on the receiving end of an aggressive dog and i wish you all the best with recovery!

Re: Dog bite

Sleepless and Worried — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:20:13 GMT

Yes, rough time. Getting better physically after hosptialisation but head messed up.

Thanks for your help, much appreaciated.

Re: Dog bite

Ema24 — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:15:44 GMT

We always take aggressive or difficult dogs out into our prep room area if the owner can not handle them, or if handling with other members of staff has been tried in front of the client.

Muzzles are always used if we are worried, even if no sign has been shown it is better to be safe...sometimes sedation is required before you can even get near them

If a dog is known to be aggressive or difficult we make a note on the screen which can be seen by all staff..it gives you warning in advance.

How many and who always depends on the individual animal..but if you dont feel safe i think you have a right to say so!

Sounds like youve had a rough time, hope you are okay?!