Non UK vets working as nurses

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Sal the 1st — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:45:47 GMT

I'm sorry but all this thread is telling me is that employers are not choosing RVN's - ok so there is a shortage, and the shortage in qualified nurses in all honesty hasnt changed appreciably all the time I have been nursing (almost 29yrs). The original poster mentioned that RVNs are being replaced by overseas registered vets so its not down to pure shortage is it? When do you think it will sink in that the RVN as they are now isnt always what the employer is looking for to do the job? When are people going to wake up and look at the current RVN training and qualification and see what needs to be changed to make it more attractive to all practices?

I agree with previous poster - I have worked with quite a few foreign vets in my time and some of them I have worked with have had really top notch nursing skills because for some of them in their own countries they do not employ nurses at all.

[quote user="denise laughlin"]

I absolutely don't agree that practices should be employing non-accredited vets in place of RVN's but remember with so few RVNs out there, we can and should be picky where we work. Our profession will never progress unless we (the RVNS) set some standards for ourselves and are more selective about who we work for.

[/quote]

and the above just about hit the nail on the head for me - for some time I have been suspicious that there will always be a shortage of qualified nurses because it benefits veterinary nurses to keep that shortage- ie it is intentional that this should always be this way. That way qualified nurses have a 'premium' and if they can push legislation that only qualified nurses work in practice they will always have a job. I dont see this working - and I dont see this working because if you try and force practices to invest in something they dont want all that will happen is they will refuse to employ nursing staff. Maybe this is what is happening now?

Veterinary nurses are in danger of making themselves that 'precious' that fewer people will want them. Standards are fine but when you are an employed person your standards have to be compatible with the person paying your wages, wouldnt it be a good idea to re evaluate the standards and make them more applicable to everybody wanting to employ nursing staff because that way more people will have jobs (if that is a primary motive) but more importantly animal nursing may progress in every practice.

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

denise laughlin — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 05:17:11 GMT

I once worked with an overseas registered vet with years of experience, who was employed as a 'trainee vet nurse' (not registered student so wasn't allowed to do anything)...He not once mentioned he was a vet or got involved with diagnostics. He done all menial tasks assigned to him with a smile on his face and was 100% concerned and caring for every animal he was involved in. I actually worked with him for a couple of months before I found out he was a vet (only because I asked if he had anything planned during his trip back to his home country and he told me he needed to check on his practice that he had set up there). When asked why he never let on that he was a vet he simply said that he respected that his qualification was not accredited, had moved to the country for a better life for his family, as the country he was from was falling apart and was just grateful for a new life and a job, and felt even luckier that without any recognized qualifications he could still get a job that allowed him to help animals. He was an amazing nursing assistant and person. Moral of the story is not to tar them all with the same brush.

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Alana Dent — Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:34:47 GMT

Thanks for all the replies! Confirms that as I suspected they need to be rcvs accredited to be a nurse as well as a vet! Already seeing the downside. Basic nursing jobs/chores being left to us. Soon there will be just the one part time employed RVN here. I am concerned the level of impatient care is gonna fall dramatically. Something us nurses pride ourselves on. The article from the guardian was interesting - the nurse was giving fluids to a cat, but appears under her own direction not the vets. A little over the remit of us RVNs. I suspect there will be a lot of hands in the treatment and very few in the nursing :(

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Lee484 — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:11:43 GMT

[quote user="rubyshoes"]I know why this is happening because of the massive shortage of RVNS. We have been trying for 6months to get an RVN and in the meantime a locum but the only people the locum agency could offer us where Non uk Vets or UK new grad Vets! Seems there are plenty of Vets around looking for jobs but no RVNS. Sad times

[/quote]

Same:( The lack of RVN's amazed me, I finally have some interviews lined up and am crossing everything! I dont want to be the only nurse here and run myself into the ground, but neither do I want someone, who, although is more than capable to do the job, could potentially get my practice into serious trouble.

I checked with the RCVS recently to clarify this point, and their advice was simple - only accredited vets, Listed or Registered Nurses and Student nurses enrolled with the RCVS and in a Training Practice can undertake schedule 3 work and maintence and monitoring of anaesthesia. The website also says this of Vets qualified outside of the UK - "Please note a qualified veterinary surgeon who does not also hold an appropriate veterinary nursing qualification may not apply for registration (nurse) since training and competencies are significantly different."

I understand it must be frustrating for them too have all this skill and knowledge and not be able to utilise while waiting on the RCVS, but what happens if something goes wrong and its their name next to it?

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

rubyshoes — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:11:52 GMT

I know why this is happening because of the massive shortage of RVNS. We have been trying for 6months to get an RVN and in the meantime a locum but the only people the locum agency could offer us where Non uk Vets or UK new grad Vets! Seems there are plenty of Vets around looking for jobs but no RVNS. Sad times

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

SuzyM — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:56:21 GMT

I have experienced this - A non UK vet employed as a nurse. They were initially non-RCVS registered, then became registered after about 6 months. They were good to work with in the sense that their knowledge level was vet rather than vet nurse so could be good to have around in some situations for advice. The main problems I experienced were they had little interest in learning about cleaning and hygiene protocols and other basic nursing requirements with the result that I usually ended up re-cleaning anything they had cleaned, and also they would 'muscle in' on all the interesting procedures taking away from one of the perks of nursing - I can't blame them for doing this because they want to learn, it's just quite annoying for the rest of the nurses! Once they were MRCVS, they really pushed to do vet work and we were effectively left a nurse short until their contract ended. As there is no legal requirement to be VN qualified to work as a vet 'nurse', I don't see any reason why they can't be employed as 'lay staff'. Interesting issue.

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Diane Chrismas — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:46:47 GMT

Hi interesting post. I myself worked with a vet who was qualified in his own country (think he was Iranian) and was awaiting RCVS accreditation to work as a vet in the uk. He was a nice enough chap, but being a vet doesnt make then a good nurse. He just didnt have the skills to deal with the patients the way us nurses do. To him it was just an animal to watch whilst under anaesthetic whilst asking the vet loads of questions re the op. He also wasnt great at the handing back to clients. I cant explain it but fellow nurses will hopefully know what I mean. His nationality also made him a little bit sexist to towards his fellow female nurses, which didnt go down well.

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Lizzie Lockett (RCVS CEO) — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:37:29 GMT

There was an article in the Guardian about this a while ago - to which our then President Prof Lord Sandy Trees replied - you can see a link to the article here, plus read the letter (it's a PDF on the right hand side):

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-events/news/guardian-response/

Cheers

Lizzie

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Alana Dent — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:49:39 GMT

Thanks Sal. I'm torn between what's best for animals/clients the poor vets and us as a RVNs if this becomes common practice!

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Alana Dent — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:47:47 GMT

I do see the benefit in long run of appreciating nurses. But they will still need the support of a qualified along the way, I don't really see any RVNs here in the future. I'm also concerned that the animals may not get the nursing they need. Will they be wanting to diagnose and treat? And with no accreditation what can they do? Medicating can only be carried out by enrolled students and qualified. So they would at the least need to be under supervision to limit liability. The English from some of these vets is not great, so they would need help with this too. I just worry with all the nursing team looking like they will be vets from non UK uni's - will the team as a while suffer, the animals,the clients, and these poor vets. They should be doing the job they trained too. Not as a minimum wage alternative

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Sal the 1st — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:42:11 GMT

This has come up before - I know there was at least 1 article about this in either the vn/vet times and it has also cropped up on the rcvs website. Will see if I can find you some links. I think one of the locum agencies which may or may not have been Rig got involved in this as well

Re: Non UK vets working as nurses

Katie Mansfield — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:39:55 GMT

When I went for my interview at Middlesex the guy I sat next to was a vet from Bulgaria but as he wasn't allowed to practice here he was applying to do the VN BSc, which I thought was odd given that all he should need to do would be to apply to the RCVS and do the accreditation.

I can see a bit of danger here in that the vets working as nurses might want to get involved in diagnosing which they'd be allowed to do in their home country but not over here - and it obv also oversteps what VNs can do. On the other hand it will give them an idea of what VNs actually do so maybe of benefit??

K x