RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Jacquelyn Smith — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:19:14 GMT

Student loans are not as harsh as they sound there has been a lot of bad press. You only pay back a percentage of what you earn over 21000 eg. If you earn 25000 you pay back at a rate of 3% of 4000 per year. I had the same fears. Mature student, not family for support, but when I actually looked at the numbers, considering that nurse wages aren't particularly high and that debt is wiped after 30 years or at retirement age (whichever comes first), once I start my degree I will probably pay back a tiny portion of my student loan if I stay in practice as a vn.

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:00:52 GMT

[quote user="oconnoanan"]

What is the advantage of topping up a diploma to a degree? 2 extra years full time (or 3 + years part time) university and associated debt? are there better wages? They'd want to be pretty good wages to pay back all that debt!!

[/quote]

It's a fair question. If you're staying in first opinion practice, you're quite correct, there's not a large increase in wages. What we've noticed is that if you're looking at options outside of practice, some commercial or research employers (academia or science companies) may prefer a BSc qualification. So in terms of career flexibility the BSc (Hons) may have advantages; but you're absolutely right that this is not a decision to undertake lightly, based on time and finances.

Kind regards,
Mark

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

oconnoanan — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:52:58 GMT

would it not be better if going back to education to do the Advanced Diploma in Nursing?

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

oconnoanan — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:50:32 GMT

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:35:07 GMT

You know, if you want a degree, there are 'top up' courses available to bring you up to BSc (Hons) in Vet Nursing from the L3 Diploma. Quite a few people do it who are over typical uni age and they don't seem to mind!

Cheers,
Mark
(sorry to slightly hijack the topic, just thought I'd mention.)

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Dreamcatcher — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:59:03 GMT

I did the work based diploma so am obviously biased towards this, but there is no right or wrong way! I really enjoyed the work-based diploma. I was lucky because my company funded the course (no obligation to stay after) and paid me for the work (admittedly a little over minimum wage, but still). I also got paid for the day I was at college. I was pretty lucky, as not everywhere is like that. The things I enjoyed most about my course:

- Consistent practice support

- No debt

- Wages

- Hands on experience which I could draw upon during discussions/assignments at college the next day

- Being part of a team. I was employed at my TP for 4 years and so felt valued as a member, got to know clients etc. I don't know, but I'd imagine if I was on a placement for just a term or so then I'm not sure whether I would have been as involved with the rest of the team.

- It sounds like a small thing, but having a day 'off' each week to go to college broke up each week nicely so I guess this is a plus!

Cons:

- College work clashing with veterinary work. I once had to sit an exam having been awake til 3 in the morning having been on-call. And of course it's typical that you would get a manic couple of weeks at work prior to an assignment deadline. I would come home exhausted and the last thing you want to do is sit down and tackle an assignment. I'm not sure if this is the same or not for the degree route though as I'd imagine you would also get assignments whilst also being expected to be on a work placement.

- No uni experience. I sometimes regret that I didn't have a 'university experience'. It does sound like fun!

- No degree. I'm proud of my RVN Qualification, but can't argue that a degree would open more doors, even in unrelated professions. Having said that I think there are more opportunities for RVNs now.

All in all, the diploma route was right for me.... not having any debt and being able to earn a wage was the main appeal for me, as I'm not at a typical uni age anymore! To be honest, I don't think it makes much difference to employers which route you choose, as long as you're hard working xx

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Jacquelyn Smith — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:17:36 GMT

You still do the NPL and everything that goes with it in the degree. You need to consider the best way in which you learn. Neither way is wrong, just different. I prefer the degree also because it gives more career flexibility.

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

SuzyM — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:43:29 GMT

Hi there

I qualified via the diploma route, one day a week at college. I have no experience of the degree. There is still a massive amount of theory to learn which means quite intensive college days and lots of 'homework'. I did a lot of personal study in my own time, reading around the subjects which is my preferred may of learning as I get a better understanding of things if I have that extra knowledge beyond what I 'have' to know. I found that people on my course who didn't do this did struggle more with the theory. I think being in practice the rest of the week, you really get to use your skills and can constantly test yourself which helps everything stick to those brain cells!! I realise it depends on the practice you are blessed with but self-motivation is a major contributor to success in my opinion. There are also some assignments on the diploma route - I did 6 altogether ranging from 2500 - 5000 words. I don't know how this compares to the degree, but, certainly in the final year, there is pressure to meet deadlines. Being in practice I got a wide range of choice for case studies and got to follow them all through from start to finish. I would choose this route again if I went back in time, but it is a personal decision and there are obviously pros and cons for both routes. I hope this has been useful and good luck!

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Jacquelyn Smith — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 07:34:32 GMT

Hi dominique I too am doing the access course but I has to be a science pathway which means 2 of your level 3 modules should be bio and chem, if they aren't already and you have already started change fast before it is too late. Some uni's don't publicise that they accept the access course, you gotta call their admissions departments. I tried for 8 years to get into practice, maybe there is something wrong with me, but maybe it is just hard, which is why I am going for the degree route. In practice experience is vital. Some want 2 weeks, but I know myerscough wants 6-8weeks. Best of luck.

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

saxuma — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:51:31 GMT

Personally as a college student, this is my preferred method of learning. But I am biased cos I have never tried the degree route.

I also think you should be aware they they do a "full time" programme at some colleges in which you can study for 2 days a week and be in unpaid placement for 2 days a week. This would bring you out to have the same qualification.

Pro's to college

earning on the job (usually)

learning the basics in a stable environments (I imagine it to be confusing if you are learning to move to different practices who all do things differently!)

shorter time to qualify

in a job at time of qualifying

Having a permanent clinical coach at work who knows your individual abilities and is able to help you either with your practical work or theory.

Cons

trying to fit full time work around study

not able to take out a loan/ not entitled to grants to pay for the course (my practice hasn't paid for mine)

being used to doing things the way your practice does them only

no support finding a placement!!!! (you would not believe how difficult this is)

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Tanya Traill — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 15:03:50 GMT

Let me give a more balance view.

I started the degree course at the RVC and I did not enjoy it at all. I,m now on the college course one day a week. I would say in my opinion the college course is better for me but not for everyone. You have to learn a little more at uni than at college but you end up with the same qualification at the end a qualified veterinary nurse. You get stability of being in one practice and I have worked in several different practices and moving around is not always a good thing. I,ve worked in some nasty places that did not want me as a degree nurse and now i,m a college nurse its completely different. I find generally practices do want college nurses more but as long as your hard working any degree or college based nurse will get on well. I would go for level 3 diploma and I,ve tried my hand at both. I did a year and a half of the degree then quit and got a job at a vets.

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Katie Mansfield — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:44:29 GMT

Getting onto a degree course will depend on which uni you're looking at cos they all set their own entry requirements. You will def need 5 GCSEs at grade C or above which must inc maths, English and a science subject. (That's the same for the diploma route as well). RVC will accept Access courses but it has to be in science and 15 points of that must be biology.

http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Undergraduate/FoundationNursing/EntranceReq.cfm

You also need a minimum of two weeks experience of working in a vets and as much other animal experience as you can get - this is what will set you apart from the other x 100 applications each uni gets every year as it shows your dedication towards the course.

You'll have to do a UCAS application (deadline was Jan when I did mine, have a look at their website). Your personal statement is very important, that's how they decide who gets interviewed. Then you'll have interviews - my RVC one was a group interview so I was on a table of 12 with 2 lecturers and you had to be able to take part in a group discussion to show your listening and debating skills. My Middx Uni interview was one-on-one, so not all unis do it the same. The uni will then give you an offer if they like you and you have to get the grades they ask for to get on the course. It's unusual to get an unconditional offer unless you have already met the academic requirements for entry.

Good luck!!

K x

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Dominique Roberts — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 00:28:47 GMT

Hello Paulette Thank you so much for your advise! That's more than I could have expected and sooooo helpful!!! Is it difficult to be accepted onto a degree course? I didn't get the best grades in school and I am currentley on an access to higher education course, hopefully looking at sorting out a biology option as well within it! I am very worried no one will accept me :( Thank you again X

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Paulette — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 22:30:29 GMT

Oh good! Thanks Katie! Wasn't sure if I've said enough pros for college route cos I don't know enough about it! x

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Katie Mansfield — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 22:23:06 GMT

Paulette, you said it really well

K x

(2nd yr VN BSc student)

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Paulette — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 22:22:37 GMT

hope someone else can put in some input as I know much more about the degree than college. forgot to say most, if not all practices will pay for your college course whereas uni you have to pay yourself and have a huge student debt at the end (especially now tuition fees have gone up!!!) however many practices put in their contract you have to stay for a certain time eg 2 yrs post qualifying (or else pay back the money they have invested in your training). uni you're not tied into anything like this. once i qualified and finished uni i was free to locum/travel/do what i wanted, not tied to a job/practice

uni obv takes longer to finish (if go for 4 yr course) whereas college it's just 3 yrs and you're done.

GOOD LUCK!!!

other useful websites:

www.rcvs.org.uk

www.bvna.org.uk

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Paulette — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 22:15:39 GMT

Degree route pros:

Really good in depth knowledge and evidence based research involved

Subjects studied to a much higher level than one day a week at college

Shows you can work at degree level

Opens up opportunities outside of practice eg laboratory, pharmaceutical, lecturing etc

Don't have to wait years in a training practice waiting for your turn to start your nurse training (many ppl start out as kennel assistants and then wait their turn)

Get two qualifications at the end of it ie Level 3 diploma and degree

Can do 3 yr foundation course and then stay another year to top up or can do 4 yr BSc course from the beginning so have different options

Get to have uni experience (I partly chose the uni route for the drinking and parties!)

Get varied experience if go to different practices whilst training. I think this is very important to see how different practices do things

make lots of friends :)

builds confidence moving between uni and different placement practices, make new friends etc

DRINKING!

Degree route cons:

Student debt

Often stay away from home - this doesn't always suit everyone

Don't always get paid for short block placements but I did get paid for my one year placement

Some people say employers prefer nurses who have trained in practice and did one day a week at college as have more hands on experience. I have found this to be a)never a problem for me or any of my uni friends b) untrue as degree students still have to do the minimum 70 or so weeks in practice that college students have to do to qualify (many of us did over this anyway) and are therefore deemed competent if have finished portfolio/nursing progress log and passed practical exams same as everyone else - plus the degree is becoming much more popular and respected now

Lots of assignments

Doesn't suit everyone, if you're not a fan of assignments, meeting deadline, lectures and academia prob not for you

can be very unsettling, sometimes at uni, sometimes on block placement (often more than one practice), sometimes at home for holidays, then back to uni etc

can be hard to find placement practices but get a lot of support from uni finding them (and will prob have had previous students there so will have many practices that take students on a rolling basis), if you look for practice to go to college you have to search on your own

Further Ed pros:

Get paid whilst training

Secure job and can make friends etc, feel settled in a job

Can stay at home if find training practice near home

Only have to go to college one day a week

Further Ed cons:

Sometimes have to wait quite a while before start your actual course (see above)

VERY difficult to find a training practice in the first place

If stay in the same practice throughout your training it's very easy to get stuck into bad habits, don't learn how other practices do things

have to rely on having good support in your practice from nurses and vets who are willing to put in the time and effort to train you and to train you well and do all the paperwork that comes with it (although obv cannot guarantee your uni lecturers will be amazing either but often have a few to go to if you need help)

Not sure how they fit all the lecturing into one day a week. Don't get to study as in depth as you would at uni

Lots of self teaching as only have one day a week at college

Need lots of support from practice staff to help with your theory as only in college one day a week

As you can prob tell I am quite biased so this is quite a skewed review but hope it helps if only a little :) P

Re: RVN level 3 diploma route or foundation degree route

Paulette — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:53:54 GMT

Hello

I think there are many pros and cons to both routes

I did the foundation degree and then topped up to BSc (Hons) at Harper Adams

http://www.harper-adams.ac.uk/undergraduate/veterinary-nursing.cfm

Good luck :)