Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:21:14 GMT

Well said Leanne

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Leanne Tyreman-Guest — Sat, 16 Jun 2012 11:40:20 GMT

I dont often post on here anymore, but I feel that I would like to clarify an issue, the government dont 'GIVE MONEY' for employers to employ a disabled person, it is a scheme called 'Access To Work', through the job centre, who assist in getting disabled people adaptions/transport and such to enable them to work. It isnt a free handout for employers to incentivise disabled workers, as, the companies themselves often have to make a contribution towards equipment/adaptions and the like.

I know this because my partner has had a serious accident and is now registered disabled and was assisted back to her previous (able bodied) role within the company, being assisted with subsidised transport, NOT free! SUBSIDISED! and, her employers were NOT given money to have her back at work, they were expected to pay significant contributions towards her adaptions and an electric powerchair she needed to get about.

These adaptions and assistance are not just dished out willy nilly either, they are in depth assessments of the disabled person, in line with the employer and they will only be put in place IF it is feasible and if the finance can be provided, it is by no means a simple option, as, what a person needs may just very well be plain and simply way out of the water for an employer to provide, both practically and financially.

I am playing devils advocate here a little, as, I understand how important it is for disabled people to be treated fairly, and be employed, and I do really wish that more would/could be, however, it is also up to the disabled person to be realistic about what role they can actually do, and not be utterly impractical with what their life ambitions/goals may be, as, at the end of the day, we all have our limits, one way or another, and I really do think that this is what the majority of the people on here are trying to say. Eg Gillian/Sal, without actually coming across as rude! its all about realism and dealing with what life throws at us, one way or another, and we must help & support each other in life, but to do this, we all need to know our limits.

thanks for reading!

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Mrs Dot Dot — Sat, 16 Jun 2012 08:50:25 GMT

[quote user="wendy scott"]

I have read some of this thread with interest, i have not read it all due to time constraints.

As a nurse who has been injured to the point that i temporarily couldn't work in practice i understand where angel is coming from. In that time i became very frustrated and angry both at myself, the profession and family around me. I had left practice to start university 3 days earlier before my accident so when i had my accident and avulsed my ACL it felt like i had lost everything, i tried to attend uni but the pain and the decreased mobility due to crutches or a wheelchair made it impossible to make friends and put me at a definite disadvantage as people just didn't know how to talk tome. Can't blame them thye didn't know me as anything other than the person in the wheelchair. So i became very depressed and frustrated due to this feeling of loss. No job and no education to start for then at least i also lost my 15 month old cat all within the same month felt like everything was going wrong.

I was in outpatient rehab for 4 months and i wanted to push myself, i wanted back to work ASAP. I was pushing myself so hard i ended up damaging my knee again during a physio session and that pushed me back with a lot of pain and swelling and this made me even more frustrated as it felt like my body was letting me down, mentally i felt ready to go back to work but physically i felt let down. I had been nursing for 10 years how hard could it be to get back into it???? This is what i thought......

I started back thanks to my wonderful employers on reception on half days, still unable to drive but working my brain and social skills felt amazing after months staring at the same 4 walls. The opportunity arouse one month in to do some emergency work, i hadn't done any nursing other than telephone triage so i was so excited by this prospect. The emergency shift was awful, lots of bending and lifting and running around. That night i discovered i was not mentally nor physically ready for that, i hadn't forgot any of my nursing far from it but with the pain of my knee and the constant stream of bad cases i was not ready for that level of nursing. I got through it but it was a long time before i did another emergency shift. :(

I am not trying to compare myself to angel in anyway just trying to play devil's advocate and see it from both sides. I can completely understand where angel is coming from as i have been there, been very angry at collegues for making me feel unable to do my job but now understand they just wanted me to heal and not put myself or others in danger. I can also understand the point of the practices. They need reliability, they need to trust that the nurse is able to perform the duties expected of them and make sure the nurse is not going to damage his/herself during daily working. I agree not all nurse duties are impossible but some are very difficult and as i experienced quite risky certainly with regard to lifting and carrying.

I agree with angel in that there are jobs that a nurse that has mobility issues can do, but i can see the point of practices wanting to employ nurses whom they do not have to worry about not being able to do certain things.

On returning to work i found a new fondness in working in reception, telephone triage, dealing with queries and dealing face to face with clients is fab. Nearly 3 years on i still enjoy this side of nursing, and going into my third year of uni i work part time as an insurance adviser with nursing shifts where they are available and of course emergency shifts although the first one did knock my confidence considerably so eased into it.

I understand angel that your mobility issues are not temporary but i wonder if working in a reception setting within a practice would suit you, perhaps also with a little nursing should they need help in the back at times and some insurance work. I know it's not full on nursing but it is within the environment and with the opportunity to help should they need it.

I hope you are given a chance in practice because if you are as frustrated as i became it can really get you down.

Wish you all the best in finding a position that suits both you and the practice it is possible i think you just have to be flexible in your definition of nursing and squeeze in your skills where you can.

Sorry for rambling on and not sure if it has helped, but i hope it has.

:[/quote] A great post Wendy.... I'm glad things have worked out for you even if they are different from your original plans. You mentioned how angry and frustrated you became with your situation which I think is extremely difficult for many of us to understand unless we are or have been in your situation. Often it is difficult to see the full picture until afterwards and sometimes until then you just have to learn to accept (however hard it is) that you can't always have what you want.... But there will always be something else or another path to take :o)

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Kerry Spain — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:40:47 GMT

Angel, can I ask just what you'd be wanting to do in practice if you can't stand for more than 5 minutes?

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

wendy scott — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:25:29 GMT

I have read some of this thread with interest, i have not read it all due to time constraints.

I hope you are given a chance in practice because if you are as frustrated as i became it can really get you down.

Sorry for rambling on and not sure if it has helped, but i hope it has.

All the best,

Wendy x

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Angel — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:59:54 GMT

Dear All

Thank you for your interesting views.

I just want to throw this in:

Prior to training as an RVN, I spent all of my time from leaving school until I began my new career working as a Secretary/Bilingual Secretary/PA, working in shops, petrol forecourts, office work blah blah blah. I am feeling pretty negative at the moment as this "Office based" idea seems to be all that's on offer to me. No one seems to want to be flexible. Believe me, I have had to be more than flexible over the years working as a VN and feel now that it's time for this indebtedness to be repaid.

I am very hard working and as I have already said, have many skills that can be used. I really miss the "hands on" approach and the ability to help save lives. Neither of which I can do if I'm based in a stuffy office somewhere. Yes I know you guys have mentioned lecturing. This is pretty appealing to me, although I have major concerns about the "standing" issues. As I said in my very first post, I can't realistically stand for more than 5 minutes without being in really bad pain. I have a high pain threshold anyway as I have had to learn to deal with daily chronic pain. So, for example someone who has torn a ligament in their knee, may feel the painscore of say 8/10, 10 being the worst pain ever.....I would perhaps feel a 3 or 4/10.

This is probably why the doctors think I'm not that bad. I know how bad I am, I have seen some recent Xrays of mine, and I cried when I saw them. At first I thought they were someone else's plates, but then noticed the printing on them with my NHS number and my surname. I howled at this point because I knew that realistically I need surgery. Finally when the consultant came in to see me, he asked why I was so upset. I told him "well, if these were your Xrays wouldn't you do the same?" He didn't answer me.

I know that this snippet of information doesn't exactly help the post. I just thouht I'd throw it in so you can learn a bit more about me. (sighs)

I am unsure of how to get classroom experience, when no one will offer me a job in a classroom setting. I have experience (even if only a small amount) of teaching, yet it would seem that this is insufficient to "pass" me to teach. I have another issue, in that unless I am challenged in a mentally sort of way, I get bored very easily. I have tried different ways of overcoming this feeling, but sometimes it just doesn't go away. This is one of the many reasons I loved locumming. I found it to be a mind game. Let's face it. When you first go to a new practice, you don't know where things are kept. It takes a while to learn. Say, if I'm working on a job at one place for a few days or maybe even a couple of weeks, I have to learn quickly where to find things. This is what keeps me mentally sharp. I have to be able to remember where stuff is. Especially in an emergency!! Oooh isn't it fun!

I don't suppose I'd get this feeling with teaching.....then again, I would probably still get job satisfacation knowing that I would work my students hard and they if they work hard, and play hard, then they have a good chance of passing their exams! If I had a large number of people who passed their exams, that would make me feel wonderful!!

Here endeth this post.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Tracy Windler RVN — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:14:07 GMT

[quote user="Angel"]Okay so the number of VN/RVN's is going to be significantly smaller. But surely if you compare the ratio of "able bodied" vs "injured" vs "disabled bodied" nurses, I'm pretty sure that the figures could potentially be fairly comparable. I am sure that if this is the case, then there is more evidence that support is absoloutely necessary. Regardless of this, I still think that there is insufficient support for the veterinary nurse out there, plenty of help and advice (including legal) if you are a vet, but its the blatant disregard for nurses that is beginning to chew me up.[/quote]

I don't agree. Although its unfair on the individual, any group, whether it is a support group, a union or a rugby team, needs a certain number of people to make it viable. If there are 2000 disabled/injured human nurses in the UK, but only 200 disabled/injured VN's (obviously random figures!) then there is a greater call for a support group within human nursing.

I do agree that there probably is more support for vets and it is frustrating for VNs- especially for you when you want to be working and there is no support for you, but their profession is more established. The VN side of the RCVS is significantly smaller than the Vet side, the BVNA does a great job, but, again, are limited by numbers who subscribe and pay their fees. If anyone has figures to compare the membership of the BVA, compared to the BVNA, I would be interested to know. I'd be willing to bet the BVNA is significantly smaller.

[quote user="Angel"]

In point 2, you say that human nurses don't consider themselves well paid. Well I totally disagree. For the amount of work they do, the hours they do and the responsibility they hold, it doesn't even come close to what we as veterinary nurses have to do, and most of the time we do two or three jobs at the same time, invariably with the broom stuck up the orifice where the sun don't shine, just to get the job done! If veterinary nurses were to earn the same as human nurses, I think that we would feel far more valued as individuals. I also think that if we were trusted to use more of our skills, instead of just the normal drudgery of cleaning, then yes, we would feel far better about the job and the profession. Veterinary Nurses would improve the way they work, there would be less complacency in the workplace and moreover, VN's/RVN's would be more happy thus increasing work output/patient/client care and their relationships with their co-workers.

[/quote]

I don't know if you personally know any human nurses, but I know a few, including my sister and she qualified on £18K. A decent salary, yes. But she will stay on this salary (with increases for inflation no doubt) for the rest of her career unless she progresses up the pay scale. I earn a similar amount to her now, although we qualified only a year apart. Yes, some staff nurses are on fantastic salaries and are probably very happy with that, but it's well known that a they have similar issues with morale and pay that VNs do.

I think it is a shame that you seem to have had experience of Vets who operate in the way you describe. I have worked across a varied number of practices, both large, small, private, corporate and referral. I have found the majority of employers to be fair. Though they may not always use their nurses to the best of their ability (sometimes to their own detriment!) but they pay what they can afford and I agree that they shouldn't attempt the parts of practice management that they aren't trained, or capable of doing, but this is often out of necessity. I would NEVER volunteer to deal with the wages, but an accountant does not come cheap and if they pay for an accountant, they have to pay theor nurses less. Private, first opinion Veterinary Practice is simply not as lucrative as many people assume. I know one, small practice had to take £600 a day just to cover costs and often we only scraped that, too often we didn't even touch it.

I am also frustrated with the low wages that some VNs are paid. Yes, some vets pay a pittance because they can. I don't actually blame them. If you were an employer and you could pay minimum wage and still attract nurses, so then make more profit, or buy that new xray machine. But if I am not satisfied ith my wages, I leave and I wish more people would do that, as this is a much more effective way to deal with the problem. BUT! I also think this is changing VN salaries are improving and our perception of a salary that we expect is improving. This WILL increase the cost of veterinary treatment for the general public, though.

It might be a bit of a contentious idea, but I have often thought that some of the Vets I work with who appear to be rolling in it, with flash cars and huge country houses / ponies / 5 children in private school etc, might just have bought that AND the practice they run, with family money. After all, traditionally (I know there are many exceptions to this!), the Veterinary world has a high proportion of privately educated, wealthy members. This is not a dig at those people, but might explain why a practice does not have a huge turnover, but the partners appear to have plenty of spare income.

I could go on forever on this subject and, believe me, I have been dejected, demoralised and felt like leaving the profession many times. So I hope you don't think I'm trying to "shoot you down". I completely empathise with many of your points and they are valid points. In an ideal world we could address these issues and have a fair society and employment opportunities for all. Our profession is developing, but change doesn't happen overnight. I also don't think you are playing the "disability card". You want to work and use your skills and knowledge, but your requirements are quite specific, so, although not unreasonable, it might take a while to find a practice who are able to accomodate your niche.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Sophie Bedford RVN CertVNECC — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:10:42 GMT

[quote user="Angel"]What I really want you the reader to see, is that I have a wealth of knowledge, excellent skills that are going to waste. I know that you disagree with me working as an RVN in practice, but my point is: could I not provide training, support and mentorship to SVN's who are in the throws of completing both year 1 and 2 of the RVN course?[/quote]

If this is what you wish to do and by the sounds of it you do have a huge wealth of knowledge and noone is disputing this. Perhaps then, teaching/lecturing or working within a college/university environment would suit you better then being within practice. I believe this was suggested fairly early on in the tread (probably only the first or second initial reponse).

Would this not also allow you to help more students this way than just a couple that end up in one particular practice? Why not use your degrees to help others with theirs?

At no point are people trying to say disabled = stupid. But what is being said is that one disability cannot (and shouldn't) be compared to another. Yes there are some things that practices can do help with some disabilities but what I don't feel you're understanding is that not all disabilities can be accommodated within practice. Someone who is deaf cannot be compared to someone who has severe OA. Likewise, someone who has a permanent disability cannot be compared to someone who has broken their arm and will be "fixed" in 6 weeks. I think this comment was unfair.

However, what a lot of people are trying to say is that just because you can't work in practice doesn't mean you can't use your knowledge to help the veterinary profession.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Donna France — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:02:15 GMT

I will just end up a crazy cat/dog lady because I will miss the interaction with the patients so I will just foster ever waif and stray!!

oh well! xx

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:00:02 GMT

Yeah, I can't imagine doing anything else, well, it is difficult to think about doing anything else even within veterinary nursing away from a clinical setting as it's all you know really.

I wish you well.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Donna France — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:53:46 GMT

I have disc problems causing serious back pain and currently off work after having my gallbladder out. My back problems are chronic and I struggle on a daily basis and unfortunately know my job as a VN is not forever...my health HAS to come 1st. As a result of my pain and discomfort I dont always get the job satisfaction I need. I constantly worry that I will get a heavy patient in when im on call (on my own) and will struggle to give it the care and attention it needs and deserves, it only takes a springer size dog to be recumbent then im stuck and very limited to what I can do on my own. Im extremely lucky that I work with very understanding nurses and bosses that acknowledge my situation but I still find it difficult to ask for help when I need it. I had time where I feel worthless and more of a hinderence than a help and that in itsself gets me down..I am unable to go out on Large animal duties, which as a farmers daughter I find really hard and it upsets me but I cant risk my back 'going' and leaving the vet in trouble.

I have been off 4 weeks this week after having my gallbladder out and because I havent been at work doing as we all know a very manual job my back has become fairly settled

I suppose what im trying to say is I LOVE my job but I have realised my health is much more important and realistically I will need to look into other jobs that can hopefully incorperate my years of nursing but means I can work and live relatively pain free. I have battled for too long as I cant imagine doing anything else but I cant continue like this.

there are jobs out there, managerial, lecturing etc..its just very difficult to leave a profession when thats all ive done since leaving school a very long time ago!

just my personal situation and experiences

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:51:59 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Victoria Nielsen RVN MBVNA"]Although yes, we do have to consider her limitations, but surely she should be given a chance? [/quote]

Absolutely. I think most of the initial posts suggested types of jobs where she would be able to use her qualification while still working around her disability.

[/quote]

Yes, so there are a few things she can do using her qualification, in practice and outside of practice, it's just being given the opportunity to do these types of jobs and overlook her disability.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:14:19 GMT

[quote user="Victoria Nielsen RVN MBVNA"]Although yes, we do have to consider her limitations, but surely she should be given a chance? [/quote]

Absolutely. I think most of the initial posts suggested types of jobs where she would be able to use her qualification while still working around her disability.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:08:19 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

I think that the point myself and others have tried, in vain, to make, is that there is no such model as 'a VN with a disability' - every single person is different, surely? Yes, some people will need modifications in order to make them do their job effectively and I haven't heard a single story where someone has been refused a job where this has been possible. Quite a few people have said the opposite. However, there could be no policy where 'disabled RVNs' are entitled to a job and the employer has to work around them. Some people would not be physically able to do some jobs - and I stand by that statement. Saying that the employer has a duty to work around you, whatever the potential difficulties, is just untenable.

[/quote]

No, there isn't such model as a VN/RVN with a disability and indeed every single person is different. But there are disabled RVNs/VN's out there.

Of course, if there isn't anyway possible that a person can do a specific job, then of course, that door is closed for them, but what I've been trying to say is, people should not look on disability as a negative thing but to see what options are open to them for them to able to do the job they have applied for. Angel really wants to return to practice in some way and she has adapted to her condition, so she can do some things which are just important as other tasks that nurses do within a practice. It's just opening people's minds to look beyond the disability and look at their qualifications etc.

Although yes, we do have to consider her limitations, but surely she should be given a chance?

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:00:08 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Angel"]I do have to say that it is incredibly selfish of Vets to pay their nursing staff very poorly, then to cream the best of the profits off and go and blow it on some swanky new motor - eg subaru or porsche or BMW's. By doing that it is the same as stabbing your nurses in the back.....and they wonder why there is mutiny![/quote]

There is an awful lot I could comment on, but obviously this comment requires an answer.

1. I know of no vets personally who have swanky cars. The idea that all vets are ridiculously wealthy is a myth that nurses should know better than to perpetuate. We do, however, earn a very good living. If you wish to obtain that same living, feel free to go to Uni and train to be a vet. (I need no excuses about why that would be difficult/impossible - none of us vets found it an easy thing to do.)

2. So what if they do? It is a free market. The vet has invested time, money and a hell of a lot of themselves in buying a practice and running it. You are free to work wherever and however you choose. If you don't like how your vet earns or spends their money, feel free to leave the practice and/or the profession.

[/quote]

Gillan, I'm very aware that vets earn rubbish money unless they are a partner - I know vets who have just graduated are paid less than I am! And work more hours bless them. It's a shame as it makes them feel undervalued when they are working all hours under the sun. And they are just told that they are being trained and gaining clinical skills so therefore that's why they are paid a pittance. So they come out of vet school with debts coming out of their ears and go onto a lowly salary, it's quite disheartening for them really. Once you become a partner (if you want to), then you have the potential to earn quite a lot, and deservingly so.

It's hard work running a business let alone a veterinary practice. I've seen how hard work it is being a Head Nurse working alongside my boss, a partner of our practice, and its extremely tough so all credit to those vets (and nurses!!) who own a practice.

In terms of what Angel said saying that vets pay their nursing staff poorly, I tend to slightly disagree. In the last year, especially the company I work for, they have come to acknowledge how valuable their nursing staff and RVNs are, and have given us more benefits and more money without us even asking. Obviously it might not happen in other places, but I've experienced nothing but support in my current employment in all areas and I might be lucky, but gradually, hopefully, more employers will realise that too, but the ecomonical crisis has had a big effect on the veterinary profession at the minute so of course, everyone is watching their pennies.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:49:20 GMT

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Victoria Nielsen RVN — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:40:34 GMT

Yes, you can get contributions towards equipment etc (I had ampified phones and in my previous job, a flashing fire alarm) so there is help out there for employers who wish to employ a disabled nurse and for some employers, they want to promote equality and diversity, so taking on disabled employees is part of that and the Goverment is trying to promote that as well.

I think the VN Times article is a great idea, it will help to highlight this issue, which is obviously a huge debate and setting up an online discussion forum - I will be willing to help if anyone else is?

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:33:24 GMT

There is an awful lot I could comment on, but obviously this comment requires an answer.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Katherine Spear — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:38:01 GMT

Hey Angel, thats really interesting that employers employing people with a disability can get government support - thats certainly something useful to raise awarenes about, and I do think the whole issue is something ideal for a VN Times article about (Angel you should write one!). I definitely think the Wings thing is interesting too and a support group could be started up, even if it were an online discussion forum or something just so VNs with disabilities could 'meet up' online and discuss issues.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Sal the 1st — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:57:52 GMT

Angel I do actually agree with a few of your points,and I also agree with Tracy's post but would like to say that not every practice is wealthy and not every vet is creaming off the profits to support their love of BMW's and paying their nurses a pittance as a result. Some practice bosses do their own DIY because it doesnt cost an arm and a leg to pay somebody else to do it - again a cost issue, and they pay their nursing staff what they can afford

Correct there is a shortage of veterinary nurses but I do know of a number of qualified veterinary nurses who inspite of their qualification still struggle to find and keep work and in this case it has nothing to do with disability but personality and work ethic - so a qualification in veterinary nursing does not provide anybody with a gauranteed position. Employers still tend to take the person who is best suited to their needs and most likely to fit in with existing staff disabled or not ( I have worked with a number of disabled people in practice, some of them really good friends)

I respect your effort in trying to maintain a place in practice but if your aim is to provide support, training and mentorship to SVNs you have to remember that training practices are scarce so it isnt just a case of finding a practice to take you on but a training practice that will take you on - and that is limiting the number of potential employers even more. Nobody is saying that you couldnt provide training and support to SVNs it isnt impossible but is less likely to happen in a practice setting - so if this is what you want to do then to have the best chance of being able to do what you want, you have to 'remove' some of those limitations that you are placing on you getting a position and you may have to look at other ways of making this happen, and yes this may involve further training for you and taking your skills into further education.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Angel — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 02:40:28 GMT

[quote user="Tracy Windler RVN"]

To address the issues of why the Veterinary profession (and particulary the nursing side of the profession) does not have a similar support network as human nursing (both in regard to disability issues and many other issues), I would suggest that, although it is tempting to continually compare the two, being similar, just with different species, I think, in this case inparticular and in many other ways, you simply cannot for a number of reasons.

1. Consider the number of registered nurses in the uk. I briefly tried to find a figure, but I easily came across a quote that "the nursing and midwifry council is the largest organisation of registered healthcare staff in the world". I think we can easily presume that their are a considerably larger number of human nurses than there are VNs in the UK. This not only gives the profession more "clout", but also, would mean there are a greater number of nurses with disabilities, so a greater demand for a support group.

2. The majority of human nurses work for the NHS. This is a huge organisation and its employees, although not always considering themselves valued or paid well in proportion to the work they do, have advantageous employment benefits such as sick pay, pensions etc. As with many large organisations, the scale of it means they often have access to HR departments, occupational health, disability support etc.

3. The NHS is also not a business, although it does need to be aware of spending and budgets, it does not need to make a profit.

4. Many Veterinary Practices are small businesses, run by Vets who are just doing their best to run a successful practice that has happy staff, a good reputation for caring for it's patients and might just make a bit of money! They have ridiculous hoops to jump through with regards to employment law, paying VAT/ income tax/national insurance, VMD regulations, health and safety, maintenance of their premises. In addition to being a good vet too! Lets gie them a bit of a break? Probably many of them would love to do more to help those with disabilities, but it is just a step too far in addition to everything else they are trying to achieve.

5. The VN profession is in its infancy and many things are improving, slowly. It might not be in sufficient time to benefit the OP, but you never know!

I might have slightly eased onto another issue in the above post regarding attitudes of vets towards nurses in general!

I would just also like to mention that I don't think anywhere in this thread has anyone suggested that the OP, or anyone else with a physical disability is stupid or has less brain function than an able-bodied person. I might be wrong? If I am, I am horrified and appalled that someone would suggest that.

It is quite an emotive subject and perhaps people could be more tactful in their comments, but this has been posted on an open forum and so has been commented on openly. I think the comments I have read have been fair and it is the situation that is unfair, not their opinions. Disability and illness are unfair. As many of you know, I suffered for years with infertility. A very cruel condition. Although we have overcome this, we may never have the family that we dreamed of and I will be an older mum than I planned to be. Possibly trivial matters, but important to me.

Lastly, what would be stopping some of the members of this forum from starting up a support network/group? Why should it have to be someone else who does it?

[/quote]

Hi Tracy

Okay so the number of VN/RVN's is going to be significantly smaller. But surely if you compare the ratio of "able bodied" vs "injured" vs "disabled bodied" nurses, I'm pretty sure that the figures could potentially be fairly comparable. I am sure that if this is the case, then there is more evidence that support is absoloutely necessary. Regardless of this, I still think that there is insufficient support for the veterinary nurse out there, plenty of help and advice (including legal) if you are a vet, but its the blatant disregard for nurses that is beginning to chew me up. As a whole, every year when the newest batch of RVNs have passed their exams, they see practice then start to moan about the same old issues, year in, year out. This concerns me. Why have we as a profession not taken these issues by the horns and sorted them out? Some are that obvious and easy they are staring us in the face; EG wages vs working hours. (Some practices take the P and because nurses are generally too frightened to say anything we put up and shut up because we are scared that speaking out or whistle blowing will loose us our job!) Anyway this again, can be discussed in another thread, another time.

Yes, I do agree with your points three and four. However, in point four, I would like to add that Vets should not try to do jobs/tasks that they don't understand e.g. accounting or DIY (putting up shelves in consulting rooms - they have not trained to do this, so why does everyone think that they are brilliant at it!!!!!) I have seen the content that is studied by Student Vets and it does not include accountancy or DIY!! My point is this: if there is a job that needs to be done, why struggle when there are people that have studied and trained in these particular subject areas and they do that for their living? Vets - STOP TRYING TO CUT CORNERS!! Cutting corners is invariably false economy in the long run. I do have to say that it is incredibly selfish of Vets to pay their nursing staff very poorly, then to cream the best of the profits off and go and blow it on some swanky new motor - eg subaru or porsche or BMW's. By doing that it is the same as stabbing your nurses in the back.....and they wonder why there is mutiny!

As I have already mentioned in my previous posting, the government GIVES MONEY to employers who are prepared to engage and employ a disabled person. It would be advisable to look at direct.gov.uk website for more information on this!!

Okay with regards to point 5, yes the profession could be viewed as being infantile. However, if nurses are not going to support each other and continually moan about the same old stuff year in year out then NOTHING is ever going to change. I agree with your last statement Tracy about starting up our own support groups. I have actually tried doing this, but I recieved a very negative response from the nurses whom I approached. Is it any wonder then that the profession is stagnating?

Another point I would like to raise is this: If there is supposed to be a shortage of Veterinary Nurses, why are practices being so picky?

I know you are all thinking about my disability. Yeah so, I have a disability. I'm the one that has to live with this, knowing there is no cure and that I will deteriorate. I also know that I can only have 2 joint replacements before I essentially will loose my legs. I also am aware that by the time I am 60 I will be confined to a wheelchair. What I really want you the reader to see, is that I have a wealth of knowledge, excellent skills that are going to waste. I know that you disagree with me working as an RVN in practice, but my point is: could I not provide training, support and mentorship to SVN's who are in the throws of completing both year 1 and 2 of the RVN course? I'm not asking a huge amount, neither am I waving the disabled trump card at you. I don't want to be chucked out on the scrap heap. I have plenty of time to sit there from the age of 55 onwards. I know my condition is unfair, life IS unfair. But, I'm trying to deal with it in the best way I know how to. Please don't shoot me down in flames for trying.

Cheers

Angel

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Angel — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 02:00:58 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Emma Cooper"]I understand the overall message coming back - that physical disabilities make certain areas of practice difficult (but NOT impossible)[/quote]

You are wrong - some physical disabilities make certain areas of practice life impossible.

[/quote]

I totally disagree Gillian, not impossible, you just have to take a different approach. Everything is do-able. You shouldn't be so negative. Afterall, if you have a disability, the way that other people percieve you is in an exceptionally negative way. Positive thinking is the way forward. Plus being positive helps the disabled person feel better about themselves. Often people with disabilities have issues with depression because of the way that other people treat the individual. It is very sad, but unfortunately, this seems to be the way that society reacts.

Angel

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:08:07 GMT

I think that was an excellent post Tracy.

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Tracy Windler RVN — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:09:12 GMT

3. The NHS is also not a business, although it does need to be aware of spending and budgets, it does not need to make a profit.

5. The VN profession is in its infancy and many things are improving, slowly. It might not be in sufficient time to benefit the OP, but you never know!

I might have slightly eased onto another issue in the above post regarding attitudes of vets towards nurses in general!

Lastly, what would be stopping some of the members of this forum from starting up a support network/group? Why should it have to be someone else who does it?

Re: Mobility Issues, Disability and Working as an RVN

Angel — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:03:58 GMT

Dear All

I have been following this subject with great interest. Many of your comments have been noted. I am feeling a little hurt that people (NOTE: I'm talking generally here!) can be so negative about disability. I'm not someone who likes to shout out about my disability, nor do I expect people to do things for me. In fact, I am quite independant and would rather struggle with something than ask for help. Quite often I will carry things with my teeth (yes they're very strong, as are my facial and neck muscles), or around my neck. If I can't do it this way, then I tend to use a rucksack to help me carry stuff, this is more appropriate if the item is heavy or bulky or simply put, too big for my gob!

I am very surprised, after having done some research that the RCVS, BVA, BSAVA, BVNA and SPVS are reluctant to help someone with a disability, plus, I discovered that there is no Equalities and Disability department at the RCVS. Surely this is down to the archaic attitude these Dinosaurs employ! Again, with all of these groups its the same old adage, that if you're a nurse, no one wants to help. If you're a vet, then the situation is very different. This should not be the case. We should all work together to help each other....but until the professions can see eye to eye this "ain't gonna happen."

I do have to agree with Victoria (our lovely deaf nurse), in that both of us are qualified RVN's and that we should be looked upon as having studied hard, taken and successfully passed our exams. I am different in that my condition is not congenital. I am not asking for special help, I want to be part of a team, I work very well with others, am exceptionally easy to work with and there really is nothing wrong with my grey cells. I have a brain that works very well; afterall it must have otherwise, how come I mangaged to get two degrees?!? It strikes me that vets and practice managers are unwilling to recognise that a person's disability doesn't necesarily affect their mental capacity or communication (speaking) abilities. I do find this rather hard to swallow. I'm not expecting to be carried by the people that I would be working with, neither am I mentally impared, in fact it is quite the opposite, as I have already stated.

I can see that yes, I would perhaps be subjected to verbal abuse/bullying by other staff members, if I were able to work within a practice. I agree totally with Katherine, in that, there should be support for nurses who are disabled, and that their skills should be utilised as much as possible. I think also that injury should be taken into account here. For example, someone who has sprained or even broken their arm, you wouldn't necessarily stop them from working in practice, neither would the RCVS tell them they were "unfit to practice"!

To futher this part of the argument:

Our compatriates in human medicine have something called WINGS. This acronym stands for WORKING INJURED NURSES GROUP SUPPORT. Yes, believe it or not, they support nurses who have a disability, and those who were injured within the workplace.

My question is this: WHY do we as RVN's not have something similar? and WHY does the profession not recognise that certain disabilities are not entirely impossible to work around?

ALSO.....

I am unsure of how many "employers" are aware that the government actually PAY the EMPLOYER to take on someone with a disability. This money is separate from grants etc. that are available to make the necessary adjustments for that particular individual to be able to continue working. If they can do it in the NHS WHY can't we do it?

Surely, it is taking a very blinkered attitude by not recognising these issues that have been raised so far within our forum discussion? I truely believe that in this day and age, things HAVE TO CHANGE.

I know that I'm not a young nurse any more, and that many nurses don't stay on in the profession for long...some choose to have a family and this restricts their work. Some just get really upset that they don't get any support in any shape or form and get that hacked off they leave the profession as a matter of principle. Others just get fed up of not feeling challenged and valued enough, especially when they work hard but are not allowed to do Schedule 3 stuff and still end up doing the job of two or even three people without the wages to go with the added responsibility! I feel that it is bad enough not to be allowed to do Schedule 3 stuff (even when able bodied), because vets (generally speaking again), don't seem to be very trusting of their nursing staff. This is an argument for another thread though.

I write this part to Sal the 1st: - I hope that you don't think that I contacted Em C to raise the issue of disability. I can assure you that this is NOT the case. I am generally interested in vet nurses (and to some extent vets) views on my situation and if anyone else has had or are in a similar situation and merely wanted to highlight disability as an issue that needs recognition, further discussion and action.

To Caro, I appreciate that you have a certain view point. I do find that sometimes your comments can be harsh, yet, I do value what you say as you have a wealth of experience of being a veterinary nurse because this is something that you have done for years. Please don't stop putting fingers to keyboard as your view point is as equally as important as everyone else's. I agree in the sense that some may not necessarily agree with what you say, but you are very truthful and honest with your postings and this should not be taken as criticism but as a valuable viewpoint not to be ignored. I really appreciate the way you are able to tell it as it is, so thanks for that!

To everyone reading this:

Please don't stop your comments. I have been able to glean lots of useful information from your viewpoints and I think its great that we can write about this.

Kind regards

Angel