2nd vaccinations

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Helen Tottey — Sun, 01 Apr 2012 19:26:52 GMT

I have been doing 2nd vaccines for years and never had a problem. Our vaccines cards say "authorised signature" and i have never known a kennels call to clarify a signature.

Also, if someone asks for copy of their card and the vet that gave the vaccine has left the practice - what do people do then? Surely the computer records would back up who did it so i have just written the name in in capitals - so obvious it isn;t a signature. Is this ok?

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Mrs Dot Dot — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:12:09 GMT

My practice have given us the ok to do 2nd vaccs a few months ago but I have held back from doing them because I wasn't sure about the exact legalities of doing it. I e-mailed the RCVS a few years ago and the reply I got or my interpretation of it was that as a nurse you couldn't sign a vacc cert but could a vacc card.... And a vet shouldn't sign anything if they didn't do the vacc so there didn't seem much point in us nurses doing them. Anyway, last week I eventually got round to phoning the RCVS and spoke to the legal dept... Asked many questions and got things straight in my head so today for the 1st time I started doing and signing 2nd vaccs.... Quite a mommentous day for me after a good few years of nursing! I just had to be sure that what I was doing was right. As nurses we can do 2nd vaccs as long as the 1st vacc and clin exam was done by a vet at the practice a few weeks before so the 2nd vacc has been authorised by that vet and is still under their care. It is highly recommended that a vet is always on the premises when it is done in case of a vacc reaction. The confusion over card and certificate is that when we do 2nd vaccs we are signing a record of vaccination whetherbthe vacc card is a card or a certificate but we are not allowed to sign to certify documents eg rabies certs for pet passports or for export certs etc. I think others have put up links to the RCVS advice note before. So we are definately OK to do 2nd vaccs! :+)

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Leanne Henderson — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 20:09:35 GMT

Thanks for all the replies guys, thats helped and eased my mind!! And thanks for the link to the RCVS Advice notes.

Cheers

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Sarah Cahill — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:09:49 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Took me a while but I found it eventually:

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/advice-notes

see note 11 - vaccination of companion animals

[/quote]

Thanks Gillian, I was trying to find this at work last week and failed!

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:18:26 GMT

Took me a while but I found it eventually:

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/advice-notes

see note 11 - vaccination of companion animals

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:10:27 GMT

If you read the 12 principles of certification, it becomes apparent that a vaccination record can very very rarely be called a true certificate. For example, all inclusions would have to be hand written (no vaccine or microchip stickers) and the animal HAS to be microchipped before the certificate is started. Amongst others.

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Mac Feather — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:38:42 GMT

[quote user="Saskia Paula Muldoon"]

So what IS the difference between a vaccination record and a vaccination certificate?

[/quote] To me its the same thing or could be seen as the same thing. Bit confusing and open to interpretation! What is the RCVS answer to this?

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Phrin Vernon RVN — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:27:49 GMT

[quote user="Saskia Paula Muldoon"]

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[quote user="Phrin Vernon RVN"]

I agree with Gillian - that has always been my understanding.

I was also under the impression that an RVN can sign a vacc card / record, but if it is a vaccination certificate then the VS needs to sign...? Anyone knoe if that's right?

[/quote]

When I was doing 2nd vaccs 5 yrs ago I contacted the RCVS re this - The advice given at that time was that nurses could sign a vaccination record but could not sign a vaccination certificate. If this has changed I am not aware of it. I have never signed a vaccination certificate.

[/quote]

So what IS the difference between a vaccination record and a vaccination certificate?

As RVN's we routinely perform second vaccinations and sign the certificates. I work for a company who wouldnt have us doing so if it wasnt correct procedure.

[/quote]

I think it's just down to the wording on the vacc document. If it says 'Vaccination Record' or similar, then no problem, but if it says 'Vaccination Certificate' then only a VS can sign. I may be wrong but that's how I understand it. Obv things like pet/horse passports are a whole different kettle of fish and need a VS to not just sign but also administer. But for your bog standard 2nd vacc card, it just depends on the wording.

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:05:12 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[quote user="Phrin Vernon RVN"]

I agree with Gillian - that has always been my understanding.

I was also under the impression that an RVN can sign a vacc card / record, but if it is a vaccination certificate then the VS needs to sign...? Anyone knoe if that's right?

[/quote]

So what IS the difference between a vaccination record and a vaccination certificate?

As RVN's we routinely perform second vaccinations and sign the certificates. I work for a company who wouldnt have us doing so if it wasnt correct procedure.

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Sal the 1st — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:17:41 GMT

You would be surprised how often this comes up - or maybe not

http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/forums/p/7678/75336.aspx#75336

http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/forums/p/1753/126111.aspx#126111

http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/forums/p/2540/21325.aspx#21325

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Sal the 1st — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:07:25 GMT

[quote user="Phrin Vernon RVN"]

I agree with Gillian - that has always been my understanding.

I was also under the impression that an RVN can sign a vacc card / record, but if it is a vaccination certificate then the VS needs to sign...? Anyone knoe if that's right?

[/quote]

Re: 2nd vaccinations

chloehaddow — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:31:28 GMT

We are starting to do this too, but we phoned the RCVS and they've told us the nurses are not allowed to sign the vaccs card. It must be the vet.

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Phrin Vernon RVN — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:27:09 GMT

I agree with Gillian - that has always been my understanding.

I was also under the impression that an RVN can sign a vacc card / record, but if it is a vaccination certificate then the VS needs to sign...? Anyone knoe if that's right?

Re: 2nd vaccinations

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:37:02 GMT

Nurses can carry out a second vaccination, provided the vet has seen the animal and then administered the first vaccination. It is deemed that the second vaccination has therefore already been prescribed.

The vet cannot sign the vaccination record though - the nurse should do this.