Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:58:05 GMT

@ophelia...lol...no worries. I don't always read every post in a thread I'm replying to, either. no offense taken!

@everyone else...one of the first things I did when I noticed the problem was deworm her using StrongidT. I'll be keeping an eye on her of course but I hope she'll stay healthy. As long as whatever she needs comes in a liquid, I think I can get it in her. The liquid metro must have tasted awful too...much huffing and drool (though NOTHING like the drool that happened with the pills) but I got it in! Scratching the patch on her chest where she was shaved for the blood draw helped a lot to distract her, too. :D

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:40:52 GMT

[quote user="Jill Macdonald"]

Agree re the old Panacur - always a good one to give just in case, but I'd doubt our little friend would co-operate with administration (going back to previous posts and diffs with tablets) - it tastes foul! Unless there's some new formulation I've not heard of. Not that I want to put you off this StM - it's very good advice.

Also, just on another point, am I right in thinking that very few cases of GI upset are bacterial in origin? Just interested why Metro is being used...

[/quote]

Metronidazole is thought to have an anti-inflammatory effect on the gut. SIBO (Small intestinal Bacterial overgrowth) can also be a cause of digestive problems, which is why metronidazole may be prescribed as well. Pragmatically, of course, it does seem to work and so vets do prescribe it.

My personal, unsupported, anecdotal opinion is that since metronidazole is effective against giardia, the improvement in gut symptoms seen is due to metronidazole cleaning out the microparasites, and so one cause of gut inflammation is removed. However I don't have any statistics or papers to prove that one, that's just my opinion.

Panacur comes in a powder as well as a liquid; some pets don't seem to mind the powder much. Mix it in marmite and you can't taste anything else anyway - really sticky stuff that pets have a tough time spitting out!

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Jill Macdonald — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 13:38:53 GMT

Also, just on another point, am I right in thinking that very few cases of GI upset are bacterial in origin? Just interested why Metro is being used...

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 12:12:54 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="StMongo"]@mark...she's on a kidney management diet. what is fenbendazole? I've not heard of that one.[/quote]

It is an antiparasitic which is sold under the brand 'panacur' in the UK.

[/quote]

True, I apologize for not being clear. Anyway, IBD can be worse when you have a worm burden; or when there's a small microparasite named Giardia present. Metronidazole can be used for giardia, but panacur is very effective against it, and has the added benefit of clearing out a large number of other parasites as well that may be living in there. Once daily dosing for a week can be very helpful to a pet with ongoing gut issues! (It's also not very expensive, so if it doesn't help, at least you've got a clean gut.) Using metronidazole on an as-needed basis is sometimes necessary, I just get worried about antibiotic resistance.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Louise B — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:01:08 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

Classic - vetnurse-itis. I have a severe case of it. Every time one of mine is sick I think the worse. I am totally convinced one of mine has a slow growing spinal tumour even though the more likely explanation is just age-related deterioration. Think it comes with the job!

[/quote]

Hey, just read all the rest of the posts that came before mine! I hadn't read the whole thread when I replied. I hope your beastie is feeling a bit better. What an insensitive post I have just made!

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:50:50 GMT

[quote user="StMongo"]@mark...she's on a kidney management diet. what is fenbendazole? I've not heard of that one.[/quote]

It is an antiparasitic which is sold under the brand 'panacur' in the UK.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 21:36:18 GMT

@mark...she's on a kidney management diet. what is fenbendazole? I've not heard of that one.

@ophelia...glad I'm not the only one! hope yours turns out to be okay!

this morning, we woke up to our first solid brown poo! let's hope this keeps up!

(side note...this is not the first time I've been excited about the poop of one of my kids. I had a sweet little bearded dragon who got all bunged up once. We took her in for a big fat enema and for almost a year, I monitored her poops vigilantly. Every time she did go, I'd clap my hands for her and say "yay for Hermes!" I know that makes me sound like a HUGE whack-a-doo, but she seemed to really respond to it.)

(side side note...wow, people or animals, us parents really do act like chumps for our kids, huh?)

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Louise B — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:25:52 GMT

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 07:39:08 GMT

Sounds reasonable; that said, I'm a massive fan of a week of fenbendazole and a hypoallergenic diet. Quite a lot of IBD can be aggravated by parasites or a mild food sensitivity.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:09:08 GMT

hi guys,

so things with Kinoko are much better. all her other test results came back normal....folate, b12, t4, TLI. it's likely that she has IBD. she's on day 6 of the liquid metronidazole, and her appetite is back to normal. her poops are still a little soft, but there are tons of it, and it actually has shape as opposed to the tiny liquid splatters they were before.

I've been told that once she's off the metro, hopefully she'll be okay but if her symptoms return, I should just put her back on the metro. does this sound right to you guys? as always, suggestions and good vibes welcome! :)

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Jill Macdonald — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 16:36:54 GMT

Hi, just wondering how your cat is doing?

Bloods sound very strange - some kind of inflammatory condition?

Let us know how you're getting on with her...

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:43:44 GMT

Good luck!

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 19:35:04 GMT

*sigh* so things were not as simple as I thought. she started to go downhill a few days after my last post. vomiting, blood in the diarrhea, and reduced appetite. I took her back in for bloodwork (including b12 and folate) and xrays. the xrays showed pretty much nothing. she's gassy and her liver was ever so slightly enlarged. basic bloodwork showed that her BUN, cholesterol, amylase, neutrophiles and eosinophils were all high. b12 and folate still pending. based on that, she's going back on metronidozole, only it's a liquid compound so it shouldn't taste like so much ass. the pharmacy will be delivering that tonight. she's eating better, though nowhere near normal for her. the doctor and the lab seem to think that she could have gastroenteritis, or lymphoma.

so, I guess we will take this step by step and see how it goes. wish me luck with this new metro compound and please, send good vibes, love and any suggestions you think we can use.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 01:46:45 GMT

so I talked to my regular vet today (the one that put her on the metronidozole was a locum) and he suggested I take her off it. it's not worth the fight to try and get it down her throat and I'm only stressing the hell out of her, and that's not helping the diarrhea.

I'm not as paranoid about her as I was a few days ago. She seems to be doing fine other than the soft poop. I'm beginning to think it could be something as simple as her grabbing a mouse now and then. Any more ideas or suggestions are still welcome, and thanks all for your advice so far! :D

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

molladog — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:07:41 GMT

Vivitreats are brill !!

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Jill Macdonald — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:54:45 GMT

I use Vivi-treats (http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/products-Intervet-Vivitreats-Tablet-Dispenser-Aids_HB4548.htm) - (no idea if this the cheapest place to get them - was just the first to come on on my search)

They are expensive, but you get a lot in the bag, and you only need half of one to give a tablet.

They're squidgy so you can wrap them around the tablet. Neither my dog or cat ever hang around long enough to question it - it just goes straight down the hatch - I just offer it to them like a treat.

Failing that, I always used buster pill givers - always used them in the consulting room, pretty much fail-safe! (http://www.viovet.co.uk/Pet_Store_Items-Syringes,_Needles_and_Pill_Givers-Pill_Givers/c158_1782_5386/category.html)

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Sal the 1st — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:55:37 GMT

have you tried sticking the tablet down as far as you can and then using 2mls of water from a syringe to wash it down with? failing that how about flagyl suspension? I can usually get it down a cat ok but they dont like me much afterwards.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:50:27 GMT

Marmite. Sticky as hell, really hard to spit out. Trust me. :) crush the pill, there's no pellet for her to get rid of.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:47:47 GMT

oh. my. god! I cannot get my cat to take her pill! tonight I tried crushing it up and hiding it in wet food she loves....nope. I even tried scarping the food on her nose to make her lick it off...nope. I tried just forcing it down her throat coated in the wet food....nope. she just waits and waits, then spits out strings of sloppy goo. I'm getting so frustrated. she's not getting what she needs and I feel like a idiot for not being able to pill my own cat. any ideas? any alternatives to this particular medication? someone help me before I quit my job and murder my own cat!

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:04:54 GMT

strongid is what the vet prescribed. hmmm....that's odd.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:35:49 GMT

Strongid-t appears to be pyrantel, which kills nematodes, not tapeworms. Try praziquantel if you're concerned about tapeworms. (drontal, droncit, milbemax, profender, and others...)

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:44:20 GMT

thanks for the tips. I think crushing it up in something tasty may work. I tried just coating it in yumminess this morning...it went slightly better, but still a pretty violent reaction. She just holds it until it disolves....makes it worse! Stubborn child.

as for her deworming, I was told she had tapeworms, so I gave er 3 days of strongid-t.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 08:49:40 GMT

Crush the tablet in a small dollop of marmite. Metronidazole tastes *truly* revolting; marmite hides the taste well.

edit: also, how did you deworm? if it's a protozoal thing, 7 days of fenbendazole often gets better than a one-off praziquantel tablet.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

Julie-Anne Wilson — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 00:06:35 GMT

I always use a syringe with water for in practice. Our head nurse swears by cheese spread, put the tablet in a blob of the cheese and they'll lick it up no problem. I tried it myself with a particularly bitey cat and it went down well.

Re: Is Work Making Me a Paranoid Twit?

StMongo — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 00:03:39 GMT

took her in today....doctor didn't want to do bloodwork though. gave me metronidozole for her. tried to give her first dose a few minutes ago...wow. we did NOT approve of that! I know it tastes bad, but she flipped the *** out! foamy spit, drooly slop all over herself. anyone have any tips for getting them down easier?