Assessing

Re: Assessing

dinkyd — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:59:49 GMT

Heey - I feel a need to protect them lol - prob cos no one else will lololol

Re: Assessing

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:55:44 GMT

a soft spot? your svn's must feel quite lucky!

Re: Assessing

dinkyd — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:53:49 GMT

Lol thanx saskia - can i add tho that these are very recently qvns - and i can understand where they are coming from but yes they do need to understand that ivs and vnacs are not as slack as they were a few years ago lol!Sorry lol i jsut have soft spot for my svns lol!

Re: Assessing

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:45:46 GMT

[quote user="dinkyd"]

It is said to me regularly - well i dont know what so so does with their study time - i never got any of that.It really gets my back up as i feel i should 'defend' my students as an assessor i feel thats what i am their for as well as to mark their eveidence and see them throught their portfolio/training.These nurses i am referring to are not assessors and have no interest in it,which shows in their attitude towards the training of svns.

[/quote]

I suppose you can 'sort of' see their point. I could easily act the same way towards svn & assessor but training changes, practice changes! Training is more advanced now than it was in previous years and we should all be happy about that.

You keep doing a good job Dinkyd and just ignore their comments! From what I have read, you are doing a good job At the end of the day, this is the way forward and we all have to accept change, even if we were not one of the lucky ones! When I started my training, there was no such thing as an assessor in practice. (or if there was, it wasnt in my practice)

Re: Assessing

dinkyd — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:37:05 GMT

I know exactly where you are coming from Saskia.I personally didnt have a problem when i was training - but i now see it from a totally different perspective i was a full time student - i wasnt employed by a tp - this shouldnt make a difference tho - maybe i didnt explain it very well previously!These nurses in my practice wont help these svns as i 'feel' - may not be the case but this is how it comes across- that because they didnt get the help/support they should have with portfolio,setting up mock practicals, helping collecting more 'difficult' cases - when they were training that they dont help the new students. It is said to me regularly - well i dont know what so so does with their study time - i never got any of that.It really gets my back up as i feel i should 'defend' my students as an assessor i feel thats what i am their for as well as to mark their eveidence and see them throught their portfolio/training.These nurses i am referring to are not assessors and have no interest in it,which shows in their attitude towards the training of svns.

Re: Assessing

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:46:11 GMT

[quote user="dinkyd"]

I try spend spend as much as poss with the svns as i dont think they get enough support- we get quite a few so can be difficult - however we do have nurses that resent us assessors spending time with them,training them and doing porfolio with them and also we tend to send the svns away for their 3hours study time if possible so they can write up their cases/study etc another thing they dont agree with because they never got that support from their own assessor.

[/quote]

In reply to your comment Dinkyd, I never received ANY help whatsoever from my then practice when I was training. One the the vets at the time was also a friend of mine, she was the only one who spent time reading my caselogs and marking and writing comments. I dont know what I would have done without her. Any other caselogs to be signed by other vets in the practice were just signed and that was it, no question or no comments. I just got used to the fact I was on my own. I wasnt allowed to do any of my stuff in work

I now work with a svn, she does her college work in practice and spends time with her assessor and I dont have a problem with it as I know how hard it is, especially when you are forced to do it on your own.

But hey, I got there on my own and here I am 10 years later!! Gosh, that makes me feel old!!

Re: Assessing

dinkyd — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:30:22 GMT

Re: Assessing

Kerry Spain — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:23:34 GMT

OK this is a record, I've spent 6 straight hours with my lovely hard working student today... worth every minute if it

Re: Assessing

Kerry Spain — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:43:02 GMT

Hi peeps, I'm lucky as I seem to get to spend quite a bit of time every week with my student, probably on average 4-7 hours sometimes more.

Re: Assessing

Emma Jarratt — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:30:58 GMT

We have two IVs as one student is NVQ through one VNAC and the other is degree placement through a second VNAC, so I have double the observed assessments, practice facilities checks etc!

Both our new IVs are lovely, sensible people though, both been in practice for considerable time until recently, both talk common sense and get as exasperated with the standards and the system as we do, which is nice.

Whilst we're having a whinge, I hate what I feel the assumption from 'the system' is, that we are assessing for the fun of it/are employed to assess/spend all of our day at our students disposal. Not like we possibly have other jobs to do, you know, like being vets and vet nurses.....

The problem I guess is that vet nursing has been shoehorned into the NVQ system and it doesn't fit (have posted that before I think). NVQ assessing is completely different in other industries. My mum is a nursery nurse, they also do NVQs, but their assessors visit lots of students in different nurseries just to assess them, it's not people in the same workplace.

Re: Assessing

Deemus — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:02:17 GMT

Ye gods! A language barrier from Birmingham - perhaps it has all changed since I was last up that way

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has problems, our IV is actually quite good and helpful but it's all the other people who have boxes to tick who annoy us. They seem to have no concept that this is a working practice!

Re: Assessing

lskm 23 — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:22:42 GMT

Hi deemuss,

My IV comes every 3 months and spends hours annoying us, Our practice is a low level risk, I would hate to be a high risk!

She also has no faith in my student being able to complete the exams or the portfolio. Its not if you fail more a case of when you fail! My student and I had a good laugh whe she passed the writen exam this winter just the portfgolio and practicles to go. She also said that my student had a language barrier, the student comes from Birmingham!!

Re: Assessing

Deemus — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:15:36 GMT

Hmm, I am ashamed to say that I don't get to spend enough time with my student. I am the HVN of a small practice with one student and two "trainees". Essentially paid work experience.

My student and I have folder that when she writes case logs and such, she leaves them for me in the folder to mark. After I've marked them, I put them back in "our folder" and she then puts them in order in her portfolio. (I daren't, I'd probably put them in in the wrong order or something!)

We had the mickey taken out of us for being "too organised". When I explained that my student may not see each other to talk about portfolio so with this method nothing goes missing, some jobsworth from the college thought that it was hilarious - our level of organisation. Damned if you do and damned if you don't!

Anyhow, my student and I try to grab a few minutes between jobs every week. It doesn't always work. Luckily, my student is quite studious and happy to take the brunt of the work. We try to do as many practical observations as possible. God knows what's gonna happen when she needs to practise her practicals!

On the subject of college, one thing that REALLY put my back up was the level of sarcasm and general unhelpfulness we received when we asked for help. Basically, last year my student and others in her class had a pretty raw deal. A couple of lecturers were off on long term sick and the college were having a hard time dealing with covering the lessons. I do understand that they had it hard too but when this was mentioned to the same jobsworth, they became all defensive.

My student missed many lessons on the renal system and the oestrus cycle of the bitch. The neurological system was a bit sketchy too. When I informed said box ticker, the reply I got was "you're the training practise, you better train her!" I was totally stunned and the only reply I could come up with was "and you're the college, shouldn't you be TEACHING her this stuff?" Suffice to say, the rest of the meeting was a little strained.

Does anyone else (who provides the course under the modern apprenticeship scheme) have a problem with the number of people who seemingly need to come and interrogate you and your student for hours on ened many times a year?

Maybe it's just me.......................................

Re: Assessing

lskm 23 — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:29:40 GMT

Have to agree with you both. Also the time my IV spends at the practice, on one occasion she arrived at 10 and did not leave until about 4.

When I am doing direct obs with my IV assessing me, If another member of staff happens to need something from that room, she tells me that I shold ave told them that they should not have entered. I find this comment annoying as we are still a working practice and are not going to stop for the day because she is there. I have spoken to my students and they have no issue with other members of staff getting something from the room whilst being assessed.

Re: Assessing

Maisy — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:55:37 GMT

[quote user="ej1574"]

One of my pet hates is different IVs telling us different things!

[/quote]

Mine too except in my case its one IV regularly changing tunes! After being told I haven't covered a diverse range of evidence, I was then told I had done too much and to remember its the students work, not mine Can't seem to win at the moment with the assessing, so much easier being a student

Re: Assessing

Emma Jarratt — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:25:41 GMT

loobylou when was that?

I think after the latest round of EVing a lot of the IVs are changing their tune and asking for more direct obs. Our HVN had her A1 induction this week and was told to aim for 60% DOs.

After all it is all the student's work - it's just different ways of evidencing that work (is evidencing a real word?)

One of my pet hates is different IVs telling us different things!

Re: Assessing

dinkyd — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:27:42 GMT

Hi loobylou - dont think you have done anythin wrong as such but i know the ivs like to see a variety of assessment - i agree tick sheets are great!I also get my student to use the tick sheets so they write it up as a case but just fill in the assessment sheets themselves- be careful with this tho as this depends on your vnac as i know the caw dont allow their students to do this and only allow the assessor to fill them in - which personally i dont agree with as i feel the student doesnt then learn from it as we are having to write up their evidence in detail.Bloomin portfolio!

Re: Assessing

loobylou — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:19:36 GMT

I have been 'told off' by my IV before for including too many observed assessments!! Apparently it should be mostly the students work. I do agree with that but surely they are less time consuming and I find them much easier to mark than caselogs. The student still does the same task but just written up differently! Im finding assessing very frustrating at the moment

Re: Assessing

Maisy — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 09:34:38 GMT

There are ways of getting around it but usually only if there is no other assessor in place. It is dependant on your IV/VNAC but if you already have an assessor they may make you wait for the year to pass.

Re: Assessing

johannapage — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 08:39:57 GMT

hiya,

is there any special way of getting round the qualified a year before you can start assessing rule?

I really want to do it as im sad and loved portfolio and my head nurse who is a trainee assesor can think of a million things shed like to do more!

just wondering if I can start it now but not qualify as an assessor until a year or what...

Ta for your help!

Re: Assessing

Maisy — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 18:39:32 GMT

Our EV has recommended that more assessor obs are included, especially in cases where you are directly watching the student or to cover odd PCs

Re: Assessing

Izzie — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 17:49:13 GMT

I probably should do more direct obs and write up what i see her doing then for her to keep writing caselogs, the last time I had done assessing was about 5-6 years ago and it has changed alot since then. Thanks for your replies, they have been helpful.

Re: Assessing

Emma Jarratt — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:19:32 GMT

I'm really not sure how much time I spend assessing, as it just happens as part of our days work really.

I am a vet and I have a level 2 and a level 3 student. Every few weeks I'll have a proper sit down with each of them to review, track, plan cases etc, maybe half an hour up to an hour each. I grab time when I can to mark cases and usually have a 'to mark' folder I'm working my way through in odd 10 mins between consults etc. Recently it's been pretty empty but they've both been very productive recently and I think I have about 8 cases waiting for my monday after morning consults!! I refuse to do any of it in my own time at home - I'm doing it for the practice not for fun! I work four days a week with both of them, so most things are via direct obs but sometimes we use witness testimonies. We don't consciously plan '3 hours a week' as our practice has such a training-based ethos anyway that most time spent working we are discussing, teaching etc anyway. Sometimes we do specific tutorials if we have a quiet afternoon.

I also try to do as much as possible by direct observation and only ask for caselogs for more involved cases, DOs are a bit more work at the time, but usually only take me 5-10mins max to write up and record feedback, rather than caselogs being lots of work for the student and then take me longer to mark as well. Also training the students thoroughly in how to present and reference caselogs so they are quick and easy to read and mark makes my life easier, and makes them easier to IV therefore more likely to pass without issues :-)

I think it does need time dedicated to it, it can't be rushed or neglected or it just piles up. But with good planning and understanding of the system it can be made more efficient. I find I'm getting more efficient all the time - also that each student's portfolio is getting shorter than the last!

Re: Assessing

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:47:55 GMT

I am not an assessor, but when I was a student, I had 3 hours per week in work to write up cases, and some of this was also done in my own time at home.My assessor would mark this and give me it back with any additional questions, which I would do again in my own time.

I would spend about 20 mins discussing case logs that I had completed and had additional questions, and had 1 meeting every few weeks which lasted about half an hour.

It was my job to select the cases I needed to fulfill the portfolio and I would go through the diaries daily and see what ones I could aquire. I finished my portfolio well within the time, and well before any exams, so I had time to revise for the exams.

Re: Assessing

Izzie — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:50:14 GMT

Well I have been told recently that we should only have 20mins on a 1 to 1 basis and then my student has 3 hours to fulfill her portfolio and logs a week. I know that she needs to have at least 3 hours for tutorials/training and that the training can be with any vet or nurse who explains things to her. This is my first time in assessing a level 3 student so it probably takes me a while to assess her work, probably spend around 2-3 hours discussing cases, marking and helping to plan when she can do assessments etc and I have been told by my iv that I have been fulling in areas of her portfolio that she can do herself, I just wanted to help her. Plus we are over staffed and so when i'm not needed in theatre/prep room and nurse clinics are done I tend to sit and go through portfolio work as theres not always much else to do.