How can adverts like this be allowed?

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Selena Carnell — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 16:39:23 GMT

i can't do evenings - due to child care, and hubby is often working late or working away so it limits my options.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Sal the 1st — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 19:56:59 GMT

The jobs are out there - depends on what you are willing to accept. I spend a lot of time on reception do a lot of cleaning, and only very little nursing. Sure I would like to do a bit more actual nursing and would be brilliant if I didnt get a late finish every night - but I took the job on those terms and thats the way it is.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Selena Carnell — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 14:45:10 GMT

I'm looking for a part time VN role, but they seem to be like hens teeth.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Alison Clare Hickman — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 14:19:06 GMT

Hey Ginny,

I am a qualified RVN and we used to work together at BVG. I started a conversation with you yesterday re my interest in the advert....perhaps we can talk on the 'phone? I am interested, I live locally and we could potentially be each others answer?!

Let's talk?

Call me ***********

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

ginny — Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:46:50 GMT

I put an advert in the jobs section last week. I also put on my tin hat because we put we would ideally like a VN but would consider someone with experience!! So far we have had no applicants - we cannot get a qualified VN.

We pay well, including overtime. Our full time week is a maximum of 35 hours and our rota is fair. We get CPD and our clients are friendly. We are Tier 2 and have vets who are FRCVS and see some very interesting cases. We even have ANA's and cleaners!

If we can't get a VN then surely the only way a practice can run is to think about employing experienced unqualifed staff and training them inhouse? How else can we continue to stay in business? VN training is currenly one big stressful headache - pressure and sticky beaking from VNACs are a major reason not to train, never mind the bizarrely worded edu - speak and emphasis on legislation/regulation etc.

In an ideal world all vets would have qualified staff. Said staff would be well paid and recognised by the general public. The ideal world is not currently the real one. I wish it were.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Fuzzyduck — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:46:17 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[quote user="Fuzzyduck"]

there are alot of useless vets working with unqualified nurses

[/quote]

Can I just say there are some very decent, knowledgeable vets also working with unqualified but very experienced nursing staff - and in some cases this is because its a one vet practice with one or two nursing staff who even if they wanted to cannot train because of the complexities of training these days. Training can be very difficult in these circumstances but might be perfect for larger practices with a higher number of staff and a demand for specialist skills

I would love to see every member of nursing staff either qualified or training but to do this the training needs to be more accessible and dare I say more applicable. The slant towards more academic and more specialist skills within the basic training does not help the small general practice. Neither does producing newly qualified nurses who tell me the days of nurses being glorified cleaners are gone - maybe so if your practice employs cleaning staff but for those of us who dont then guess what the nurses still do the cleaning, and that doesnt make me any less of a nurse because I take a pride in having a clean practice.

Ok so I might be a dinosaur and this job has changed dramatically from the job I came into in 1984 but a lot of what needs doing on a basic level on a daily basis within the practice hasnt changed at all, it still needs doing. There are too many trying to be too important in this job in my opinion

[/quote]

No my practice do not employ cleaning staff, i also on top of my nursing duties am responsible for making sure everywhere is clean and tidy and am often on my knees scrubbing the floors and skirting boards.

Im not saying all my day to day duties are soley nursing but i know i do alot more nusing and schedule 3 than alot of nurses out there.

Im also not saying all vets in small practices are useless, but there alot out there that are and it scares me that people are trusting their animals in the hands of these vets, and sadly most of these employ unqualified nurses who dont know any better as they havnt trained because they wont answer back.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Tracy Windler RVN — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:17:48 GMT

Didn't think it was a "slight", Sal, I was agreeing with you! Just that it doesn't make you a dinosaur because you're a back-to-basics nurse (although I'm no spring chicken!)

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Sal the 1st — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:46:39 GMT

there was no slight intended Tracy - I know there are many out there who just get on with the job whatever it is thats needs doing , and equally there are those that feel certain jobs are beneath them maybe it was a bad generalisation on my part but I have certainly come across a number of newly qualifieds who feel that once they qualify their cleaning days are behind them - and I accept it is part of the job that doesnt require a deal of brain power but like it or not it is part of our job

[quote user="Tracy Windler RVN"]

I do most of the cleaning in my practice. We're a small 1 vet practice and I don't begrudge it, in fact, I am more likely to notice things need cleaning or know what has been used

[/quote]

yes thats pretty much what I feel about it as well.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Tracy Windler RVN — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:37:16 GMT

Sal, if it makes you feel any better, I'm (only!) 5 years qualified- so a relative newbie to the profession- and I do most of the cleaning in my practice. We're a small 1 vet practice and I don't begrudge it, in fact, I am more likely to notice things need cleaning or know what has been used, than our lay staff who don't do much nursing.

On the flip side, I do think that openly advertising for staff like this on a veterinary site is blatant disregard for guidelines. I'm more inclined (although I'm making assumptions here!) that the employer is deliberately "sticking two fingers up" at the RCVS. Its a little too vague to be construed as illegal, though. To some practices, "all aspects of small animal surgery" for nursing staff, means induction and monitoring anaesthesia under supervision of a vet. Which is perfectly legal. Not schedule 3 procedures. I'm interested to know how many practices actually allow and facilitate their nurses to undertake schedule 3 procedures, as in my experience, its not that common.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Sal the 1st — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:05:54 GMT

[quote user="Fuzzyduck"]

there are alot of useless vets working with unqualified nurses

[/quote]

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Katherine Spear — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:15:28 GMT

Would have to say I think that as individuals we can help change things..lots of people are working hard to change this kind of stuff & im sure that Just by flagging it up as you have done Selena is a good step. Have you let vetclick know, they are very good there & could well change it? It could just be a poorly phrased advert by a practice. Things are changing for the better :)

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Fuzzyduck — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:31:06 GMT

Its nothing new, and doesnt surprise me in the slightest. Selena you just need to find a practice you are happy with and be happy doing that, i dont think that you should give up on the profession you obviously love.

As individuals we cannot do a thing to change what happens, and there are alot of useless vets working with unqualified nurses and there is nothing that we can do about that, until attitudes and the law is changed you just have to find a practice that supports you and makes you happy.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Selena Carnell — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 12:36:28 GMT

Well I have never seen an advert specifically asking for a non qualified nurse to deal with all aspects of SA surgery.. So what about schedule three stuff then? isn't that breaking the law. I know it been going on years but I would have expected more from vet click. maybe it won't change for years, maybe i should just give up on the profession i fought to get into,

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Sal the 1st — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 11:36:22 GMT

[quote user="Selena (Hypnorm) Carnell VN"]Looking through some of the jobs pages on Vetclick and this one shocked me a bit 'We require a non-qualified nurse to assist in all aspects of small animal surgery. The right candidate will be enthusiastic, presentable and flexible. A full-time position in a lovely location, possible accommodation. Pay depending on experience. Apply with CV to' I'm surprised this is on vet click.. All aspects of Sa surgery!... But not qualified.... ( the vet advertising has been suspended before for docking tails) Sometimes looks like we are fighting a loosing battle for recognition if these adverts are allowed.

[/quote]

well as there is no legal requirement for nursing staff to be either training or qualified, no laws are being broken - and the emphasis at the moment is on regulating to the nth degree those that are already qualified and screwing up the training on those that are trying to train so I dont see this changing any time soon (probably not in my lifetime). I dont know why this is so shocking its been going on years.

Re: How can adverts like this be allowed?

Fuzzyduck — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:53:37 GMT

There are far too many vets like this out there, im just glad i have found a fanstastice progressive practice where nurses are encouraged to further their skills and education to give the best care to clients, i know i wont be moving on!