Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 22:16:13 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

can I just ask how does any actual work get done whilst all this training is taking place? You must have a helluva lot of staff?

Don't you mean 3 hours of in-practice training time per week???? With our course provider they are also supposed to get 3 hours of self-study time each week.

[/quote]

We have 10 nurses total - including the students!

The 3 hours is either self study or CC training etc... whatever is needed.

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 21:14:27 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[quote user="Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA"]

They recommend that aswell as their college time they should get at least 3 hours of study time in the practice each day. (Something I got with my training anyways).

[/quote]

can I just ask how does any actual work get done whilst all this training is taking place? You must have a helluva lot of staff?

Don't you mean 3 hours of in-practice training time per week???? With our course provider they are also supposed to get 3 hours of self-study time each week.

[/quote]

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 16:52:41 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]You must have a helluva lot of staff? [/quote] Not really! We have someone off on holiday every week from now til Christmas, but they need the time to get training done... so we just get it done!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Sal the 1st — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 09:18:09 GMT

[quote user="Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA"]

They recommend that aswell as their college time they should get at least 3 hours of study time in the practice each day. (Something I got with my training anyways).

[/quote]

can I just ask how does any actual work get done whilst all this training is taking place? You must have a helluva lot of staff?

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 22:45:49 GMT

The CC's reflective account is not supposed to detail the task, but rather REFLECT on how the student performed ie. how the student has progressed, their confidence, their ability in this area etc. - the details about the task are for the student to record.

The reflective account is also supposed to be very concise. They are considering reducing the 1000 character limit as the accounts shouldn't be that long!!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:03:53 GMT

I know it's defo ONE CC per student!

But I'm not sure how many students a CC can have... I guess it depends on how much time you can allocate yourself to each student. They recommend that aswell as their college time they should get at least 3 hours of study time in the practice each day. (Something I got with my training anyways).

We are actually having 1 CC and 1 special .... Argh! I can't remember what they are called. Basically due to the rotas that we work we are having 2 CCs per student - with one of those being the main CC that signs off the NPLs...

It works really well, as all 4 of the trained CC have their own special areas of interest... so for example, I can train the student in reception and when I'm happy with their progress their CC will watch them (like observational assessments) and sign them off as competent!... That's the plan anyways - we're due to start in the next couple of weeks! ;-)

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Philippa — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:40:41 GMT

That should be ok then. How many students would you recommend per CC?

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:23:57 GMT

[quote user="Philippa Clarke"]hope this new system will be equally as straright forward.[/quote]

The best way I'm thinking about it is... the way the vets are trained... They go to college for the knowledge and come to the clinical coaches for the practical skills!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Philippa — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:42:37 GMT

Hiya I completed the CC training by the distance learning route whilst on the sick from work. I have very very little information apart from the booklet they gave me to complete the course (which is pretty useless). What sort of info have you managed to collect.

I did the A1 course within a couple of months of becomming a QVN and because I hadn't long completed the portfolio I found assessing them and supporting the students quite straight foreward - hope this new system will be equally as straright forward.

Good luck

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

les punton — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:06:51 GMT

This is what I have been doing now (maybe 3-4 lines).

I got told initially I was putting too much information in my reflective account - Explaining what exactly the student done and what materials was used etc as I thought it was important to say why certain materials was used to show the student had knowledge.

I do find the NPL easier but personally I prefer portfolio

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:40:55 GMT

[quote user="Lady Saw"]

How much detail do you go into when writing your reflective account?

[/quote]

My understand for the training was the is was BASIC! Like the comments that would be written after a caselog

eg. I'm happy that student can clean a kennel competently, they have a good understanding of the disinfectants used and the dilution rates required for a wide variety of clinical diseases.

But I am yet to start my coaching... so I might be well off the mark! x

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Lorraine Bradley — Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:19:12 GMT

Greetings all CC's.

I have been coaching for a year now and still can not get a straight answer to a question I asked from the start. . can anyone help?

How much detail do you go into when writing your reflective account?

I started from the view point that I was a qualified RVN so knew what I was teaching and the RCVS would trust me on this but recently I've written up my account with as much detail as I can squeeze into 1000 characters, which is taking some time and now I'm way behind. I've spoken to the college but still get the same vague reply of "Keep it basic" but how basic is basic??

Can anyone enlighten an old green book nurse?

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:30:35 GMT

Like I said... probably just my hangups from the way I was trained!...

... Ask me again in a couple of months if I like the new system!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 16:05:40 GMT

[quote user="Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA"]

I get what you mean Gillian, but I'm not sure how happy I would be ticking a competent box - for example... yeah I've watch my student do a PCV... but does she know why she's doing the PCV?

I can say yeah she's awesome at every aspect of veterinary nursing practically - but I have no real structure to know how much knowledge she has!

[/quote]

But that's not your job. There is no guarantee that an assessor/CC is holding the correct knowledge anyway - the student should be taught the theory by the college. Would you expect vet students to be taught by other vets in practice, or just shown how to do the practical stuff during their seeing practice? If nursing is trying to be the fully recognised profession it deserves to be, then this idea of being taught 'on the job' should be forgotton!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Sal the 1st — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:19:04 GMT

just an observation but could it be that many of those struggling most with the new system never knew the simplicity of the old green book system. I know a lot of people think the green book was easy to get signed but I really didnt find that to be the case. My HN or vet would only ever sign a section if they were happy you had the practical knowledge, and later when I had qualified I was just as careful about putting my name to something only if that trainee could demonstrate their practical ability to me. I agree with Gillian the theoretical knowledge and the marking of paperwork is the job of the colleges.

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:52:24 GMT

I get what you mean Gillian, but I'm not sure how happy I would be ticking a competent box - for example... yeah I've watch my student do a PCV... but does she know why she's doing the PCV?

I can say yeah she's awesome at every aspect of veterinary nursing practically - but I have no real structure to know how much knowledge she has!

And yeah... caselogs were a bit long winded sometimes, and more often than not I would be sitting at home with a couple of bottles of wine just to get them finished on my own time... but I could gauge from them the knowledge the student had... now it's all down to a 5-10 minute conversation!

I love the NPL system online. But the rcvs seem to have a nack for scrapping one system, bringing in a new one - chopping and changing bits here and there for a couple of years then scrapping that competely for a brand new system...

I know there's no way I could pass is a diploma student ... I have no skills for writing 5000 word harvard reference assignments!

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to it... it's just down to the people learn!

I guess it's just my hang ups from the A1 days!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:39:08 GMT

IMHO the npl will be a lot better than the old system. It is early days, and there will be teething problems, but it should do what it is supposed to do - show that the student has learned how to complete the practical aspects of the job. The old K+U has gone, but has been replaced by a much more thorough theory course, written assignments etc. This means that the assessor is not expected to find hours and hours to both teach, assess and then pour over the written reports. This may be possible for a large practice with enough staff to set aside large chunks of time for it (or very generous staff who do it in their own time), but was very difficult in a busy small practice. Especially, as in my case, when the vet/boss is the one who is the assessor. It is doubly difficult to those new to assessing, and may be enough to put off a practice from teaching at all.

The new NPL is based on the CC just ticking the box, with very little written input from them. It is based on trust - don't tick the box unless you really are confident that the student could carry out that task - but surely as a VS or RVN you should be able to rely on your word? And you aren't doing the examining - the RCVS will do that for you! The student does have to make some more notes in their study diary, but no more standards with annotations etc...yippeeeeee

I am bemused as to why someone would feel that this system is worse than the last one....the portfolio was a massive task for the amount of time you were expected to complete it in and I had a lot of sympathy for students who were expected to do it alongside working and doing the theory. Phew!

That's my opinion anyway...

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 11:21:18 GMT

[quote user="Susan Jackson"]the knowlege side of things is now assessed at college[/quote]

This is the bit that I struggle to get my head round... Before there was a huge amount of questions the student had to complete - either directly or through the portfolio...

I think having the assessors - sorry clinical coaches - gain only an oral understanding from the students could be a mistake... roll on September to get started properly! ;-)

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

les punton — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:52:01 GMT

[quote user="Susan Jackson"]From my understanding of clinical coaching, the knowlege side of things is now assessed at college so in practice you just have to teach them how to do the tasks. This is supposed to lift the teaching burden away from the practice and lower the amount of work the clinical coach is supposed to do.[/quote]

this was my understanding too, not too keen on new system as yet, maybe it will grow on me?!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Susan Jackson — Thu, 25 Aug 2011 21:40:00 GMT

From my understanding of clinical coaching, the knowlege side of things is now assessed at college so in practice you just have to teach them how to do the tasks. This is supposed to lift the teaching burden away from the practice and lower the amount of work the clinical coach is supposed to do.

But from the threads on here it doesn't seem to have made it easier yet!

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:57:00 GMT

Where abouts in Dorset you moving too? You got a job lined up?

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Vickipr — Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:30:05 GMT

Yes, the transitional student has been difficult! Not the student herself, obviously, she's lovely, but the NPL side has been harder, and our VNAC just seems to leave you to it! However, I have a standardisation course next month, so I'll see if anythings changed then...

I thought I recognised your name on one of the FB posts the other day! I live in London, but visit Dorset regularly, and hope to move there next year, so I listen to Wessex FM here to make me feel like I'm living in Dorset! (Very sad, I know!) Maybe I will work with you one day

Vicki x

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Thu, 25 Aug 2011 11:43:13 GMT

Hey Vicki,

We kept well away from the transitional student for that reason!

I do often comment of Wessex FM yes! My bf and one of the DJs are mates.

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Vickipr — Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:23:18 GMT

Hey!

I am a clinical coach too, and I have a transitional student, so her 1st year was portfolio and the 2nd year is NPL. She is under a lot of pressure as they are trying to essentially fit 2 years of work into her last year!

I wasn't an A1 before this, but did help out with several portfolios before, and i have to say, I definitely preferred the portfolio. I'm getting used to the NPL, but I'm not sure about it. As Shelley said it is repetetive and doesn't show a great depth of knowledge. I end up doing written questions for my student so she can prove her knowledge!

I'm sure it will get better as time goes on... maybe?

Vicki x

P.S - Stuart, I think I've seen you commenting on Wessex FM's FB page? Am I right?

Re: Clinical Coaches UNITE!

Stuart McQueen RVN MBVNA — Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:05:41 GMT

Hey Shelly, you worked in Oakhampton right!? We've spoken before?! How's things? Where you working now!?

I know what you mean about the understanding. We have 4 CCs in practice - 1 previous D32/33, and me an A1... and we both raised the issue that there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of knowledge coming from the student - which we were told is now kinda upto us to give the students the knowledge... I'll be interested to see how the NPLs work this year... this is our first year using them. As much of a pain as it was I will miss the old Portfolio! xx