Hospital Deaths

Re: Hospital Deaths

Nick Shackleton — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 11:33:03 GMT

[quote user="maria thompson"]

I was struggling with this too I think there must be an inaccuracy here in the reporting. Like you say who has vials of saline ? I have a friend whose a human nurse I'll ask her.

[/quote] We use vials of saline. They are plastic rather than glass they come in 5ml, 10ml and 20ml. We use ours for flushing iv cannulas

Re: Hospital Deaths

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 10:43:25 GMT

I read early this week that the nurse is now in disscussions with Max Clifford - I ask you

Re: Hospital Deaths

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 10:39:34 GMT

I was struggling with this too I think there must be an inaccuracy here in the reporting. Like you say who has vials of saline ? I have a friend whose a human nurse I'll ask her.

Re: Hospital Deaths

Sal the 1st — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 19:15:38 GMT

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14769486

all very odd

Re: Hospital Deaths

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:14:17 GMT

We use them for flushing IV cannulas prior to CT scans. I think you'll it is more likely to be someone within the hospital facility. they could always add certain products to fluid bags prior to infusion. Who knows only time will tell.

I know its Drama but look at Holby when Patsy Kensit's son was given the wrong infusion.......

I'm only speculating here not pointing the finger.

Re: Hospital Deaths

Katy — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:46:42 GMT

Yep, I thought they meant those Nick.

The nurses use them for making up AB injections etc. And we use them in the Aseptic Unit.

Spose you could tamper with them by using a fine needle and drawing out some saline and then putting insulin in....

There was also mention of saline infusion bags, but it is obvious if they had been tampered with as you've got to take them out of the plastic wrapping and take the seal of the ports before you can add anything to the bags?

Re: Hospital Deaths

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:47:57 GMT

These are similar to the ones we use at work available in 5, 10 and 20ml versions.

Re: Hospital Deaths

Catherine Goulding — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:56:18 GMT

Something like the Allitt case shouldn't happen anymore as the Clothier Report found that people sufferrng from depression and other mental illnesses are more likely to do such things. Anyone in certain hospital positions (or even students prior to starting a course) are screened for and monitored for such problems. Prior to starting my ODP course I had to have a form filled in from my doctor to say I didn't have the makings of a serial killer and all fellow students had to have medical clearance which included a discussion with occupational health (which coincidentally took place at Stepping hill!).

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it is known what type of people commit these horrendous crimes and there are mechanisms in place to stop it from happening again, but very very rarely people do slip through the very close net. There was a case a few years ago about a nurse on the crash team that was administering potassium to patients just to get the call to revive them again. He apparently got such a buzz out of resuscitating people that he had to keep finding different ways to make them crash. He only got found out after so many had happened all on his watch.

In my hospital I have not yet seen the insulin or heparin vials to be able to say which are used, All drugs are also under lock and key so I am struggling to understand how it could have happened accidentally.

Re: Hospital Deaths

Sal the 1st — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:56:42 GMT

that is one theory yes - but maybe thats all it is because nobody can really know what makes somebody else tick

Re: Hospital Deaths

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:55:40 GMT

Hey Sal

Yes, I am aware of Munchausens by proxy, and I reckon I have seen a few veterinary cases too.

I don't understand the relevance though.... are you saying that 'she' was trying to take the babies/children to deaths door so that she could revive them? And therefore get lots of attention?

Re: Hospital Deaths

Sal the 1st — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:50:13 GMT

have you heard of Munchausens by proxy? where somebody creates symptoms or diseases in somebody or something they are caring for. They cause the symptoms seek support often medical of sometimes family of friends and they get lots of attention which is actually what they crave or sometimes they become the hero by saving the life of the person they have tried to harm at just the right time. I am damn sure I have come across this in practice with a few owners over the years whose animals have inexplicable symptoms whilst at home but show nothing when they are hospitalised but its a very hard one to prove.

Re: Hospital Deaths

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:43:20 GMT

WTF was her motive though? From reading wiki - none apart from to cause babys and kids to die....

Can't believe I never heard of this before.... so *swear word* angry and scared and tearful that this could happen

Re: Hospital Deaths

Sal the 1st — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:38:54 GMT

yes sometimes reality is worse than fiction

Re: Hospital Deaths

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:38:22 GMT

[quote user="Phrin Vernon RVN"]

OMG Sal - I could only read so far down that.....

I'm struggling to control what I want to say about that.... person is too understanding a word.... how dare she! these babas, those parents who will never recover, but those poor wee babys who will never get a chance at life ........ so very angry at 'her'

cant find the words - if that was my lil man! - cannot comprehend..........

[/quote]

Sorry - that seems such a tame reply - but I would probably be jailed if I posted what I thought she deserved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Hospital Deaths

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:36:39 GMT

OMG Sal - I could only read so far down that.....

cant find the words - if that was my lil man! - cannot comprehend..........

Re: Hospital Deaths

Sal the 1st — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:23:12 GMT

Beverley Allitt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverley_Allitt

Re: Hospital Deaths

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 23:11:44 GMT

Allitt?

Re: Hospital Deaths

Sal the 1st — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:59:05 GMT

who knows?

maybe it was another Allitt type who knows? from the news (and who believes that these days) the patients concerned were either very sick or terminal - i dont suppose anybody will ever know what the motivation was.

Re: Hospital Deaths

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:52:41 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

http://www.packworld.com/print.php?id=11468

I had assumed they were meaning this sort of packaging - polyamp vials, I have saline ones in my first aid kit in both 5 and 10ml sizes they are a quite soft plastic and I would imagine would be easy to inject with a small gauge needle (ie insulin needle) without the contents leaking esp if they are stored upright

[/quote]

So if they polyamp hepflush vials? But how much insulin would need to be inj into one of them to be fatal!? Do you think causing fatalities was the aim?

Re: Hospital Deaths

Sal the 1st — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:44:13 GMT

http://www.packworld.com/print.php?id=11468

Re: Hospital Deaths

Caro Laithwaite VN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:16:51 GMT

Bloody heck.. and don't go near wigan they are as bad if not worse

Re: Hospital Deaths

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:14:12 GMT

So back to square one - how the hell do you contaminate an opened glass vial?

This story really freaked my poor ma out, as she has been in there twice in the last 18 months - first time i had to shut off her IV as it was empty and air bubbles were coming down the line, second time they not only screwed her meds up royally, didn't check she had taken her gp prescribed drugs, but (icing on the cake!) asked a 73yo lady, possibly premedded, (she can't remember!!!!) if she would sign here for some new pain relief trial....... - result? Because of the trial drug they had given her, which didn't work!, she went 48hrs post knee replacement with no bloody pain relief! She was in tears contantly, and they kept giving her paracetamol!

Grrrrrrr - Macc is our only other option and have bad reports from there too!

Re: Hospital Deaths

Caro Laithwaite VN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:04:48 GMT

Hep flush the only thing l could think of and no was done in the store room at the hospital the way they are speaking.

Re: Hospital Deaths

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:00:19 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite VN,"]

They keep talking about vials of saline and showing pictures of small glass (?) vials not the bigger plastic ones. l assume are meant to be tiny vials of saline unless they were stock shots.

At one point around when it was first reported they said it wasn't bags of fluid but vials hence my ongoing confusion.

[/quote]

Only thing I can think of is a small glass/plastic vial of saline or hepsaline meant for IV flushing - our heparin came in glass vials.....Have seen them called 'Hep-Flush' on the packaging, with a pic of an IV in situ on a hand - but still needed to be diluted down by us. Can't remember the heparin concentration.

And even if that is the source, how the hell was it contaminated? Was it at source?

Re: Hospital Deaths

Caro Laithwaite VN — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:59:21 GMT

...... where 36 vials of saline solution are believed .......

The hospital found that some saline ampoules had ......

See what l mean very confusing.