Pets at work

Re: Pets at work

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:42:28 GMT

I am surprised that no one has really mentioned that a veterinary practice is a place, primarily, for sick animals. Or those undergoing surgery. Would those people who seem to be happy to compare children with animals think it appropriate for a RN to let their child spend every day in a hospital children's ward? Apart from everything else, hygienically, it is not a good idea. I find it odd that people feel that it is a good environment, on a permanent and daily basis, for a healthy animal. Unless there are specific and seperate kennelling facilities, obviously.

I have allowed previous staff to bring their pets to work every day. It was very diffcult and I wouldn't do so again. However, I have no problem with occasional visits (and do bring my dogs sometimes) or in a doggie-daycare 'emergency'.

Re: Pets at work

Louise B — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:34:36 GMT

No worries. I think I phrased myself very badly in the original post so the blame lies with me I think! So I apologise too!

Re: Pets at work

Tracey Louise — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:31:35 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Tracey Louise"]

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

I have to be honest and say that I internally question the careerchoice of any VN that doesn't have (or want) animals and I wouldn't want them nursing my animals.

[/quote]

Are you assuming that everyone that is against having staff dogs at work do not have pets of there own? or do not care for animals?

Im sure you may be very mistaken if this was the case.

[/quote]

NO!!!!!!! I don't assume that at all. Nor do I say that at any point.

[/quote]

Sorry if I misinterpreted your statement, but was just unsure as to what you were referring to here, it is kind of off the topic of the thread?

Sorry again

Re: Pets at work

Louise B — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:50:10 GMT

[quote user="Susan Jackson"]

Just being nosey, but Princess Ophelia, why do you not allow your dogs to play with each other? Is this a behaviour thing?

[/quote]

Nosey away. Based on experience really. I have been a multiple dog household for years and one of the problems I have found is that if you adopt a dog into an environment in which there is already at least one other dog present than it is very easy for the newcomer to develop a really good bond with the other dog(s) and not with the owner. If you don't have a good bond with your dog and, if it sees other dogs as much more interesting than you, then the ability to use toy play as a way of training your dog/keeping it motivated to be with you is almost impossible. As food isn't always a good motivator if you want to try and use only/predominantly reward-based training with your dog then you really need to try and make it as motivated to want to be with you as you can because you are the most fun thing in his/her's life.

I adopted a new dog about 8 months ago due to circumstances that were not ideal (long story) and, because of everything else going on, let the dog (undersocialised) play continuously with my other dog. Within about 2 months I had turned my dog from one that was really good material to work with and people focussed to one that was obsessed with other dogs, reactive on and off lead, etc. Now that my circumstances have improved I am now having to put right a mess I allowed to develop and top of the list was a ban on all dog-dog play. My dog still gets as much play as before but now I am his playmate. His behaviour has improved markedly but has a way to go. And all that could have been avoided had I stopped the dog play and redirected it towards toy play with me in the first place!

Re: cages. That's fair enough. I think it depends on the dog and the circumstances - its definitely not a 'one-size fits all' policy and I have rehomed two of mine in the past (within the family) because I felt that what I was offering was not meeting their needs at that stage.

I don't get emotional at euthanasia but I can still feel for the owner, the animal, etc. The person I am thinking of just felt and never appeared to have ever felt (not talking about displaying emotions, just feeling them) any depth of sad feeling. I just question how you can ever empathise with the value people place on their pets and how much it affects them to lose one if you are not, and never have been, moved by euthanasia. I think the human-animal bond is one of the most fundamental factors making the job of VN even exist so to have a nurse that doesn't even feel the 'specialness of that bond' feels odd/cold. That to me is a bad nurse in certain areas of nursing. I am sure they are fine with the animal under g/a, etc but are they the person you would want raising the vein, giving words of comfort, etc as your animal took its last breaths?

Re: Pets at work

Susan Jackson — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:16:56 GMT

Defo Fuel to fire!

I must admit I still feel even if these dogs are exercised very well, that it is still not fair on them with our long shifts. They get to sleep in cage intermittantly with exersice and when they go home they get more sleep on their own when you're asleep. Think I would still prefer a garden or access to garden.

Really nice to hear some practices are having kennels built for staff pets. I assume outside with nice run. Good for them but again a very rare and not practical for practices in the current economical client.

Just being nosey, but Princess Ophelia, why do you not allow your dogs to play with each other? Is this a behaviour thing?

Going a bit off subject, I agree with you on the VN with no interest in animals, it does seem odd. Wouldn't judge that she'd make a bad nurse. I will say I don't get emotional at PTS. It's not pleasent and I don't go in all smiling etc.... I do feel empathy for the client. But I view PTS as ending suffering so I'm ok with it. Not on young, troubled animals.... that's just a waste, get a little angry.

Re: Pets at work

Louise B — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:30:29 GMT

[quote user="Tracey Louise"]

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

I have to be honest and say that I internally question the careerchoice of any VN that doesn't have (or want) animals and I wouldn't want them nursing my animals.

[/quote]

Are you assuming that everyone that is against having staff dogs at work do not have pets of there own? or do not care for animals?

Im sure you may be very mistaken if this was the case.

[/quote]

NO!!!!!!! I don't assume that at all. Nor do I say that at any point.

Re: Pets at work

Tracey Louise — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:22:41 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

I have to be honest and say that I internally question the careerchoice of any VN that doesn't have (or want) animals and I wouldn't want them nursing my animals.

[/quote]

Are you assuming that everyone that is against having staff dogs at work do not have pets of there own? or do not care for animals?

Im sure you may be very mistaken if this was the case.

Re: Pets at work

Louise B — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 17:05:09 GMT

I think the phrase was "have (or want"). What I am getting at (badly judged by the replies!) is VNs that don't really love animals. I realise that there are circumstances that prevent people having a pet even though they might want one or times when you don't feel like having one due to the feelings of bereavement, etc that come from losing one. What I mean't, very clumsily put (clearly), was VNs that 'aren't particularly fussed' by animals.

Moved by euthanasia - I stand by that. If you can honestly say that if pet loss (including your own animals) has never particularly affected you then I really am chilled by you and your attitude (you as in maintaining the structure of the sentence rather than directed at any nurse who has replied). There is a difference between distancing yourself to do the job and not feeling anything about the lose of life, empathy or sympathy for the owner, etc. The former I would agree is essential to the job - the latter simply leaves me cold.

Re: dogs. Sure - I accept that is the case. But, unless I am mistaken, I did not say that work places must/should/ought to let dogs on the premises simply that I chose NOT to work at workplaces that are not dog-friendly and/or pay sufficiently well to allow me to indulge my 'luxury of owning a dog'. There is a difference. Just like I choose to avoid places that employ people that are incredibly boorish, workplaces not in line with my own personal ethics or workplaces that have a culture that is too alien to my preferences. These are personal preferences and, thankfully, we live in a diverse environment so diffferent preferences can be cultivated and accommodated. I have no problem with staff not liking dogs being brought to work for alot of the reasons spelt out above but I choose to avoid the individuals/workplaces that hold the more extreme of these viewpoints (e.g. Funkyfish's employers by the sound of it!.

Re: Pets at work

Julie-Anne Wilson — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:38:25 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]I have to be honest and say that I internally question the careerchoice of any VN that doesn't have (or want) animals and I wouldn't want them nursing my animals. I met a nurse once who was not animally and was completely honest that euthanasia, etc does not move her. I felt chilled by the conversation and I knew which sort of nurse I wanted caring for mine. I know many people feel practices that allow staff dogs are not being 'professional' but I think that, managed well, they could end up with nurses that stay alongtime because the ability to bring your dog is such a valuable perk to a dog owning VN. The pay is pretty lousy and, as a single person, I could not afford dogs if I didn't take them to work with me. I would have left the profession entirely if dogs were banned and head towards a much better paid profession that did allow me to have dogs. I didn't become a VN to end up unable to afford to have a dog myself.

[/quote]

So in your opinion, a VN without a pet must not love animals? At least that's how I'm reading it. I personally became a VN because I love animals not because I wanted a pet!

You also have to think of nurses that might live in rented property and can't have pets. Or don't want a pet because they work long hours. Not every practice allows staff pets and I think it's sort of rude to "expect" this of any practice. A vet practice is first and foremost a business so the kennel space should be for actual patients not pets.

Also you say were chilled by a VN saying they weren't moved by euthansia? Euthansia doesn't affect me unless it's an animal I know or one of my own pets. I would not work in this job if I got upset every time an animal got PTS, can you imagine how sad your life would get if you got upset by every PTS that happened in practice? Unless you've been lucky enough to never had to deal with many! PTS is a very common thing and if you can't step back and distance yourself from it then I would say you possibly picked the wrong career.

I'm also curious as to how many other professions you know of that allow dogs other than Veterinary/dog groomer/kennel etc? 'Cos I'm pretty certain you wouldn't be able to take your dog into an office building for the day or a shop.

Re: Pets at work

Caro Laithwaite VN — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:59:38 GMT

Held off and just read this but am VERY upset at comment on VN who don't want pets not being fit to be in the job made by POHM. When Wibble last of our dogs/pets died Brian said no more animals he couldn't take the loss. I was just starting to slowly work on him when he died. At that point l made the decision no more animals ever,

I do not know where my life is going, they are a big tie and responsibility and l have enough on my plate and l quite frankly do not want that. I have mentally been through the whole gamut of animals from fish to tortoises to birds cats dogs etc. You name it l have come to the same conclusion no more pets ever. I even decided against adopting a fledgling crow at work the last 2 nights that is how l feel about it.

To say that l am now unfit to be a vn because of that decision is very hurtful and crass to say the least and l am sure there is many other nurses out there who do not want animals for whatever reason.

Re: Pets at work

zara — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:49:19 GMT

I agree with Katie (as I work with her), my dogs have not been the easiest esp my first one.

I used to bring my first one in because he was really ill with kidney failure, but my new dog I bring in when needed and although she is noisy which is when i put her in the boot of my car, at the moment it is not so bad as I live at home with the parents but soon I will be moving out and although I will get her to my p'rents when I can knowing that it is ok and obviously where we are getting staff kennels I will need not to worry if my p'rents can't have her and will not have to take a days leave.

I chose to have a dog and I respect that but it should not have to revolve around my job, as someone else said love me love my dog.

Re: Pets at work

Sal the 1st — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:41:03 GMT

Fair does POHM - I know there are responsible people out there and not everybody abuses a priviledge and my former boss was perfectly ok about dogs coming in until people pushed it too far.

Re: Pets at work

Louise B — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:36:03 GMT

Thanks Katie! The other thing that I used to point out was that being allowed to take your dog to work may result in a more flexible nurse. If I had to leave my dog at home the come-what-may I would have to go home at lunchtime, I would arrive seconds before my shift started and leave seconds after it finished. Not very useful to a practice (though not a sackable offence) - especially if short-staffed or dealing with a high volume of unexpected work/emergencies. Contrast that to being allowed to bring your dog to work. Nurse calls in sick - "sure, I'll stay on for another couple of hours or so - just need to let the dog out for 10 minutes" (or whatever!). You get my point.

Re: Pets at work

Katie Drew — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:41:17 GMT

Princess Ophelia, thats exactly my view, and what I wanted to say. Very well put.

Re: Pets at work

Selena Carnell — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:34:33 GMT

I don't find that controvesrial at all, at least YOU have made provisions for your pets by getting a lockable cage in the car, which means you are able to leave the boot open when its hot, and are able to either put dogs in kennel if there is space or if no space leave them in the car. I know a couple of vets who don't have pets, doesnt make them any less of a vet, they just enjoyed the interaction between the animals they saw. They said with the hours they worked it wouldnt be fair to have a pet that they couldnt commit to.

Re: Pets at work

Louise B — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 00:40:34 GMT

I am going to add more fuel to the fire now probably. I have 3 dogs and these all come to work with me (I have even locummed - successfully) with 4 dogs: 2 small (c10kg) & 2 large (c25 - 32kg) dogs. For 13 years now I have very much taken the attitude 'love me, love my dogs' and have had few problems. I have a custom-made dog crate that takes up the whole of the back the car with the seats down (citroen saxo) and has a padlockable door. With the exception of one who comes inside (cage in office), the other two sit outside in the car. I am able to leave the boot open and check on them regularly. Despite the huge amount of opposition to keeping dogs in cars, I firmly believe that the overall welfare of my dogs is better served by being crated in a car at work then left at home all day. Sometimes when I locum I will bring them into the practice and kennel them (kennel space permitting) but I find that they would prefer to be out in the car then in practice with me so they usually come in more as a panacea to staff that 'feel sorry for the poor doggies sitting in the car' and I put them back out if there are any signs of kennel stress (e.g. noise). During the week I am now office based so they stay out during the day and come in if I work late (i.e. no-one else to be bothered by them). I know there are very mixed opinions at work re: my dogs being there but there are sufficient options out there for me jobwise that I would leave if an my dogs were banned from work as it would cause me too many problems.

Bringing them allows me to walk them on arrival at work, at lunchtime, and before leaving (and sometimes out at breaks too dependent on the length of the day). If I left them at home, they might have more space but they would a) have to go much longer between walks if you add on the commute (and I definitely don't have the money to pay for a dog walker (not that I would want one), and b) they might spend too much time playing with each other as a source of enrichment which would be a disaster. I discourage play between my dogs so the last thing I want to happen is my dogs to spend all day playing with each other and very limited interaction with me! They get copious amounts of play with me though to compensate.

I really don't like dogs loose in staff rooms, etc though. I detest staffrooms where you go to sit down and cannot because somebody's dog is crashed out on it and people think the dog looks 'too cute' to move. I hate dog hair all over the sofas, dogs loose in the surgery, dog bowls everywhere, and dogs begging for food. But, most of all, what I really really detest, is veterinary staff who bring their dog/cat/whatever to work use up a kennel and then fail to clean the kennel/bowls/bedding/run/grassed area when they remove their pet. That drives me nuts and, like somebody else said, the attitude - its coming back in tomorrow so I need not bother - really sucks when you have an out of hours service and the night nurse might need to suddenly clean it out because it is needed for an emergency case. Or, they half-heartedly clean it out (e.g. clean only the floor of a walkin kennel) because 'their dog is healthy'!???

I have to be honest and say that I internally question the careerchoice of any VN that doesn't have (or want) animals and I wouldn't want them nursing my animals. I met a nurse once who was not animally and was completely honest that euthanasia, etc does not move her. I felt chilled by the conversation and I knew which sort of nurse I wanted caring for mine. I know many people feel practices that allow staff dogs are not being 'professional' but I think that, managed well, they could end up with nurses that stay alongtime because the ability to bring your dog is such a valuable perk to a dog owning VN. The pay is pretty lousy and, as a single person, I could not afford dogs if I didn't take them to work with me. I would have left the profession entirely if dogs were banned and head towards a much better paid profession that did allow me to afford my dogs. I didn't become a VN to end up unable to afford to have a dog myself.

Re: Pets at work

Mrs Dot Dot — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 22:15:06 GMT

I'm lucky enough to bring my dog to work daily.... she is crated up in the staff room.... she has been used to this since 7 wks old..... I'm not always happy with the time she has to spend in there sometimes but it is just how it is..... she gets masses of exercise but also spends alot of time crated.... yes, occassionally she is noisey but if I didn't bring her to work then she would be home alone alot more when I wouldn't have enough time to go home at lunch.

This is a controversial subject.... it is a priveledge to be able to bring your dog to work... it shouldn't be expected, and if you do you should respect other peoples situations, views and clean up after yourself and your dog. You can't please everyone and no doubt people will say I am being cruel but she has always been brought up this way and if she didn't get walked everyday it would possibly be truish. She is happier being crated and having people around then being at home with a bit more space but being alone................

Re: Pets at work

Selena Carnell — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:47:33 GMT

but she stated she doesn't want the dogs in a kennel all day. Its not proffessional to have dogs free running behind the scenes, even if the are well behaved staff dogs.. we all know that even the most well intentioned dogs can turn! Its not a right to be able to bring your dog to work, i wouldn't want to take my dog into work and have her there for 8 hours on a shift, i'd rather leave her at home or get someone to come in a check on her, it cant be nice hearng howling dogs during the day. I've not seen anything shocking on here, the comments are fair i think.

Re: Pets at work

Tracey Louise — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:17:39 GMT

[quote user="Tomo"]

I do see you thoughts behind this.

However, you dohave child day care for people with children. these are now being actually run by people within the bussiness.

[/quote]

Yes we do but this is not free, i pay more than half of my wages on childcare. There are also places that look after dogs and these are called boarding kennels!

[quote user="Tomo"]

Without the correct work life balance vns become a bit 2 dimensional.

Being a vn is about thinking outside the box, caring for patients and clients and respecting work mates.

This is obviously a highly chrged topic..

[/quote]

I do not know any 2 dimensional vn's? No idea what this statement is trying to get at? Apart from upsetting ALOT of VN's.

I do understand that your dog is important to you, but are you really willing to give up everything for her just to be with her all the time. Surely working part time instead of full time would put you into some sort of compromise?

And maybe you should have thought about all of this before getting a dog in the first place, just my honest opinion.

Re: Pets at work

Katie Drew — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:04:05 GMT

Good on you Tomo, completely agree with all your comments. I bring my dogs in when I want to and need to, they are well behaved and quiet. As head nurse I would allow any staff that needed to bring in their dogs, to bring them in. I have a boss that is understanding and allows us to bring in our pets. Ive worked in 4 practices and have always been allowed to take my dogs in. They dont disturb anyone or clients. We are all happy with how it is. I cant believe the responses you have got..... Im actually shocked!!!! We are getting staff kennels/room built for us in the practice im in now. Yes I understand that its not possible and is rare in practice. Keep looking there are practices out there. My practice manager says pets needing to come to work are part of the profession we are in, and Im not a bad owner because im a nurse I shouldnt of been shelfish and got a dog and not thought it through.

Re: Pets at work

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:56:44 GMT

I've been very lucky in a few jobs, that have allowed staff to bring dogs in. In one practice, admittedly, it was as my then pooch was destructive & had separation anxiety, and as I lived in practice accomodation, and they didn't want the flat getting trashed they let me bring her in and stay in a kennel - there were plenty of kennels, so patients never missed out thankfully! The practice behaviourist worked with me on trying to sort out pooches problems too, which was fab of her, although I moved away before it got fully resolved.

My last job, Spot Dog came to work every day and stayed in the staff room, along with a couple of the vets dogs, and they were all practice mascots

Also had another job when I was poochless, where my colleagues were allowed to bring their dogs in to stay in the staff room.

Re: Pets at work

Sally Howe — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:09:37 GMT

My 3 dogs go to my in-laws while I'm at work unless they are poorly or on a Saturday (for 3 hours) which clashes with my hubby working.

We are not allowed our dogs in work as a rule.

As I work too many hours (with 2 hours of travelling a day) I am looking for friendlier hours nearer home so I can again enjoy some time with MY pets.

I don't spend all my time with any of my dogs when they are in, infact the vet spends more time with them. They are crated and happy to be crated. They are walked no more or less than any other dog that is in for the day.

Re: Pets at work

Selena Carnell — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:59:56 GMT

You say your wouldn't want him in kennels all day? but you can't have him wandering around the practice, it would be dangerous. Being able to take your dog to work is a bonus, but you shouldn't expect a practice to accomodate this.. if i knew a vets that provided a creche for kids whilst your worked i'd be first in line!! yes you can get vouchers for child care but that its completely different. Having a pet is a luxury these days and with it the responsibility. How long have you been in practice out of interest. Long hours are often part and parcel of the job its self. My last work place the vets all had their dog tied under their desks, it was a nightmare when you went in the office as they would all pop out, one would be licking you, sometimes one of the vets dogs would be left in the nurses flat,, she proceeded to empy the bin or eat your lunch.. and the vet did nothing about it. when we had health and saftey it was noted that dogs should be away in a kennel or not in the practice at all. funnily none of the nurses ever brought their dogs in on a shift all the vets did, often there could be 5 dogs in

Re: Pets at work

Lolita — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:26:20 GMT

I bring my dog to work sometimes, he gets a big long run before we go in, and at lunchtime. I only bring him in on a day when I know there is not much going on, the clients love it, and when he doesnt come with me, they ask where he is. He stays at reception ( our reception and waiting area are one, but we have a long desk completely sectioned off so he is not able to get out) and sleeps under the desk, he is very good, and well trained, and doesnt go wandering around without supervision. I would never bring him in when we are busy, I am the only nurse there, in a rural setting so its nice to have him with me at times. But I completely understand how it would be annoying to have him there if he was barking or wandering around when busy. The vets dont mind, and sometimes use him for body scoring to clients with dogs that have weight problems! But I would completely respect them if they told me he couldnt come either. But there are times when I just have to bring him with me, he loves all the attention he gets from everyone. But I also clean up after him but he rarely stays in the kennels in the back

Re: Pets at work

Steph Phillips — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:18:03 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

just another bit on this - how many dogs would be happier at home in a larger space than being cooped up in a hospital cage for most of the day? I know one of my friends has just put in a dog flap for her rottie and she has access to garden, kitchen and dining room during the day and has gone from being a bored, lard arsed lump of a dog to one that is active and more interested in life. ( and no I dont think anybody would try and break in her house through the dog flap as they would have to contend with Molly)

[/quote]

yup.. I agree!!

I would much rather leave Jess at home where I know she's safe, than bring her to work with me

Jess used to belong to the vet - he rehomed her when a client was about to have her pts cause she no longer wanted her!! the vet also had 3 other dogs and realised that having 4 was a hand full.. so I offered to have Jess - she is A-MAZ-ING!! Anyways, I used to take her to work with me alot and leave her in the large garden with vets dogs, but since my hours changing - I'd MUCH rather leave her at home.. it's a dogs life anyways and all she does is sleep! tehn when I get home she knows she's having a chewy treat and a long walk