Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Phrin Vernon RVN — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:58:37 GMT

Cool - look forward to what they say.

Of course dogs are not just small four legged humans, and cats are certainly not just small dogs, but it will be interesting to hear what the human anaesthatists say anyway

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Nick Shackleton — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:46:42 GMT

[quote user="Phrin Vernon"]

Could you ask around Nick? It would be interesting to find out

[/quote]

I could but hardly go up to theatre or ICU! Will ask next time they bring a patient down

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Phrin Vernon RVN — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:45:42 GMT

Could you ask around Nick? It would be interesting to find out

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Nick Shackleton — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:41:19 GMT

With Propoclear you are less likely to see the heinz body reaction from what I have heard (went to the press release). Was a bit ago though.

Yes I have seen a few ICU patient come down with vials of lipid propofol, but as I don't work in either ICU or theatres/anaesthesia I wouldn't know whether they are using clear/lipid free propofol

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Phrin Vernon RVN — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:25:20 GMT

Of course you can point that out Nick! My idea of drawing up in advance is usually within 15-30 mins prior to induction - would that cause a problem?

As for repeated use in kitties - I am sure I read - probably on here - that anecdotal evidence was that repeated ga's even with propoclear, could be problematic - I am happy to be corrected though, and as I said, am looking forward to what they find out - if anything!

As for stopping manufacturing the white stuff - my understanding (again I may be well out of touch!) was that the version with preservative - ie propoclear, is a uniquly veterinary product, and that they are still using the ?lipid (don't know it via that term) white stuff in humans.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Nick Shackleton — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:10:32 GMT

Hmmmm Phrin can I point out that you shouldn't really be drawing up lipid propofol in advanced really as no preservative in it!

I actually think there are a lot of pluses for the new propofol such as the reduced risk of heinz body reaction in kitties as you are more likely to get with repeated use of lipid based propofol.

Also as it has a preservative in it it can be kept open for 28 days therefore less wastage.

A lot more suitable for TIVA (total intra-venous anaesthesia) and infusions (ie in status patients, poison cases, PSS patients that are seizuring).

I can't see them withdrawing it to be honest. I heard that they were stopping manufacturing the lipid version.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Phrin Vernon RVN — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:58:17 GMT

I'm not a fan of propoclear - athough perhaps 80% of inductions go well, with no apparent signs of pain (via catheters), I've seen a few that were difficult to settle post induction, and also some excitable recoveries.

I have used the white stuff for a good few years, and I would definitely say that there appears to be a higher incidence of 'incidents' with propoclear - be that pain on injection, difficulty in settling post induction (usually in cat spays & castrates) or excitable recoveries - again usually in cat neuters ???

I do wonder sometimes if the vets tend to inject quicker - sounds wierd I know, but I'm sure they were slower with the white propofol.....?

I also dislike a) the fact it is clear! So many other drugs are clear, including hep flush!! Although we do label every syringe drawn up in advance.... which brings me to b) the fact you can't draw it up in advance, as you can with rapinovet etc - which can be a pain when you have laid everything out for the vet, incl bottle of propoclear and appropriatly sized syringe and needle, they place an IV in a fractious patient and then realise they have to draw up the propoclear, instead of it being there ready - a little thing I know, and I should be better at reminding them to draw it up just before they place the IV.....

Hmm - will be interesting to see what the manufacturers find!

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Emma Gerrard Dip AVN (SA) DipHe CVN BSc (Hons) CVN RVN KSQP RAM — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:37:57 GMT

Interesting! I had some experience with Propoclear at my last practice before I left,never really liked it,worried me that it was clear for a start. It definately seemed to sting more and patients really didnt like it. Surely they would have done research into multiple uses before it was licensed!!! I would be interested to look at the data.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

SmegSlayer — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:14:44 GMT

I have had many blood tests all thru my childhood, never been offered emla cream despite having to have 2 phlebotomists (1 in each arm) trying to hit my illusive veins.

I have also had GA by gas when I was 3 and by proprofol when older. I was fine with both. I remember the proprofol being cold but not stinging.

i had a great anaesthetist when I was 3 who 'anaesthetised' my teddy bear by mask first and then did me. i remember the mask coming down but wasn't scared at all

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Juliet Drummond DAVN (med) RVN D32/33 — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:12:26 GMT

[quote user="Teh Fluffeh"]

Probably a silly question, but would this apply to Fort Dodge Propoclear as well or just Pfizer?

[/quote]

i think the product is the the same- fort dodge and pfizer ?merged recenlty (correct me if i'm wrong here)

we have never had any significant problems with the usage of propoclear.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Teh Fluffeh — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:51:58 GMT

Probably a silly question, but would this apply to Fort Dodge Propoclear as well or just Pfizer?

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Emma Purnell — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:46:50 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite VN, MBVNA, C-SQP"]

If it has been withdrawn l think you will probably find you get refunds on stock you have certainly it is worth asking.

[/quote]

Do they not normally only do this when they recall them? We have been told (through a third party) that any stock we have is 'fine to be used' although I have always been a bit funny over Propoclear...

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Fuzzyduck — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:57:38 GMT

We had major problems with propoclear, switched back to regular propofol in the end. Major pain on injection, like nothing ive ever seen before, animals literally screaming and flipping out upon injection when the catheters were 100% in the vein and patant, always flushed first to check.

Im glad they are withdrawing it and investigating

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Tracy Windler RVN — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 00:14:16 GMT

I've had gas (iso, I reckon) and propofol induction and didn't notice any problems with either- was there one minute, awake, in recovery the next!

With propoclear, we just make sure we take it out of the cupboard first thing and I keep it somewhere warmer until it clears up again. The only thing I don't like about it is the clear bit! Just find it disconcerting in the syringe!

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Caro Laithwaite VN — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 23:51:10 GMT

If it has been withdrawn l think you will probably find you get refunds on stock you have certainly it is worth asking.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Phrin Vernon RVN — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:47:10 GMT

My sis is REALLY needle phobic - so they did the EMLA cream thing - I don't want to believe that gassing down is OK for peoples...... cos I am rather anti it in practice (except for smallies etc) - I think it leads to a stressfull induction..... plus I hate being wrong lol! But am glad to be proved wrong - if that makes sense?

And I was under the impression that if you are gonna mask down, sevo is the way to go?

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Phrin Vernon RVN — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:42:17 GMT

OMG bengal - did they not offer EMLA cream? Gassing down humans - achhh - I have enough issues with gassing down animals! Iso as well - not Sevo?

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

BengalcatRVN — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:18:45 GMT

[quote user="Steph Worsley RVN MBVNA"]

[quote user="Phrin Vernon"]

[quote user="Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA"]

We had problem with it going cloudy overnight as the practice was sooooooo cold overnight.......had to wait for it to warm up and become clear again before using it.[/quote]

We have had that too - pain in the bloody ar$e!

[quote user="Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA"]

Propofol is painful upon injection in humans and the same is thought to occur in animals. I know when I had an operation a few years ago and had propofol via a cannula I felt it stinging all way up my arm with just a few mls it was horrid felt like my ar was going to drop off!!!!!

[/quote]

When I last had a GA with propofol, I can't remember it stinging.... but then the premed had done a pretty good job on me.... I vaguely remember, just before being knocked out, waffling away happily to the anaesthetist about our GA protocols at work lol

[/quote]

I dont remember propofol stinging either when I had my ops, and i hadnt been premed'd either time. I was the same chatting about GA protocols at work LOL

[/quote]

I got gassed down thanks to my needle phobia! It rocked, much better than needling me. I think they "canulated"(cathetorised to us animal nurse types ) me after I was asleep. lol, they warned me it might smell funny, but said I was used to catching the odd wiff of it. The 2nd guy put stawberry balm in the mask to make it smell nice....didn't work! They used isoflorane! Apparently I was chatting about stuff, then gripped and nearly broke the aneathtists hand as I went under! Haha!

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Cats meow — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:57:33 GMT

Thats a shame and may cause a problem or two. We don't use it routinely (we use propofol or alfaxan) but have the occasional known patient who has reacted to the emulsion, also the case with Diazemul, so Propoclear is ordered in specially for them.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Steph Worsley — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:54:03 GMT

[quote user="Phrin Vernon"]

[quote user="Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA"]

We had problem with it going cloudy overnight as the practice was sooooooo cold overnight.......had to wait for it to warm up and become clear again before using it.[/quote]

We have had that too - pain in the bloody ar$e!

[quote user="Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA"]

[/quote]

I dont remember propofol stinging either when I had my ops, and i hadnt been premed'd either time. I was the same chatting about GA protocols at work LOL

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Phrin Vernon RVN — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:50:46 GMT

[quote user="Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA"]

We had problem with it going cloudy overnight as the practice was sooooooo cold overnight.......had to wait for it to warm up and become clear again before using it.[/quote]

We have had that too - pain in the bloody ar$e!

[quote user="Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA"]

[/quote]

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:05:01 GMT

We had problem with it going cloudy overnight as the practice was sooooooo cold overnight.......had to wait for it to warm up and become clear again before using it.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Emma Purnell — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 19:59:01 GMT

Typically we have a huge stock of the stuff in the cupboard and I am not a fan for this very reason!

Interesting though, must remember to pass the message on tomorrow.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

lskm 23 — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 19:35:24 GMT

Hi,

I had a call from our rep today to say that Pfizer have withdrawn Propoclear due to the reaction some animals have when it is used for a second time, ie 2 propoclear inductions within a short period of time. Pfizer have withdrawn this voluntarily and are going to investigate in to why animals react in this way. Rep thought it should be back on the market spring time.

Re: Propoclear being withdrawn?!?!

Shelly vn — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 18:44:48 GMT

I've not heard about this. We use propoclear and not had too many problems with it, but looks like we'll be using something else soon!