Choosing holidays!

Re: Choosing holidays!

Tracy Windler RVN — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 13:45:52 GMT

I think it seems that the discrimination law that has been quoted to you, can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways if you look at it in the way they have.

So.....Person A is being discriminated against because they have children and needs to book holidays in the school breaks. So person B has to book their holiday outside school breaks, as they don't have children (we don't know why they don't have children). Person C has worked for 5 years in one practice, so now has to relinquish her holiday privaledges (sp?) to Person D who has worked there for 2 months. Who's is being discriminated against?!

The way they have interpreted the law, suggests that if one person is getting their rights, another person is losing them, so whichever way is chosen, someone is discrimiated against! I'm sorry, but it seems to me like human rights gone mad! Is this person PAID to write/interpret this?!

Re: Choosing holidays!

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:21:16 GMT

I don't mind anyone mentioning anything, but if a controversial or difficult subject I prefer them to ask to speak to me privately.

Just mention how this affects you personally, don't try to discuss other staff as 1) it looks like you are stirring up bad feeling and 2) it is likely that if they have tolerated the system so far, then if push came to shove they won't back you up and you'd look foolish and alone. For example, say 'the system is unfair to you because it will affect you by.......', not 'we all think......and we all want.....'. Ideally, have some idea of an alternative system that you would implement that would be more fair to everyone. If you can't think of an alternative, then it is likely that is the only reason for the current system.

I'm not a fan of 'first come first served' in a big practice as it can mean that the louder, more assertive staff get all the perks and the quieter, easy-going staff don't argue. I'd rather see everyone cooperate but this isn't always feasible. In my practice, I keep an eye on the rota and will speak up if it looks unfair. I'm not always popular for doing so, but that is part of being a manager...!!!

Done properly, and with everyone being friendly and open, it should be an easy discussion.

Re: Choosing holidays!

KirstyJaneRVN — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 13:56:09 GMT

Thanks Gillian I'm very aware of that and the last thing I want to do is create bad feeling. Just wanted to "quote" it here as it was quoted to me, I didn't mean that I was going to go to my bosses & read the act to them! (no where near brave enough to do that! lol) & agree that it certainly wouldn't be the right way of going about things...

For future reference as an employer yourself, how would you recommend best to broach the subject?

Thanks for your comments.

(P.S. I didn't think that Kirsty was a very common name either, but I also went to college with one too!)

Re: Choosing holidays!

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:07:50 GMT

I didn't mean you shouldn't query their policy - everyone is entitled to do that and shouldn't create bad feeling if done properly. Just to start quoting the law....

Small world! Didn't realise there are so many Kirstys around! lol!

Re: Choosing holidays!

KirstyJaneRVN — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 22:45:57 GMT

Hi Gillian, I'm not going to be approaching the subject anytime soon, was just interested for future reference & thought other peeps might be too!..

And yes I am an RVN - thanks for reminding me that I need to update my profile details (FYI that is my old practice & so a different Kirsty!)

Re: Choosing holidays!

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:59:23 GMT

Have also just noticed from the practice website that you are actualy a trainee, not an RVN as it says in your profile. (unless there are two Kirstys who started work this year?).

Even more brave to rock the boat before getting your RVN!

Re: Choosing holidays!

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:59:12 GMT

Have also just noticed from the practice website that you are actualy a trainee, not an RVN as it says in your profile. (unless there are two Kirstys who started work this year?).

Even more brave to rock the boat before getting your RVN!

Re: Choosing holidays!

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:54:04 GMT

wow - you're brave if you do approach the problem in this way (quoting equality act etc) so soon after starting a new job. Good luck!!

Re: Choosing holidays!

KirstyJaneRVN — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:19:27 GMT

Thanks for the feedback guys, Interestingly, it may not be 'legal', reply from quality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC):

"Where a policy which applies in the same way to everyone has an effect which particularly disadvantages people with a protected characteristic, i.e. age, gender, disability, race etc.

Where a particular group is disadvantaged in this way, a person in that group is indirectly discriminated against if he or she is put at that disadvantage, unless the person applying the policy can justify it.

In this case a holiday allocation policy which allows employees with a longer period of employment first choice of holiday date, may be seen to be indirectly discriminating against female employees who are more likely to have childcare responsibilities, and have limited dates on which holidays can be taken.

It may also indirectly discriminate on the grounds of age, and it is more likely that younger employees will have been employed for shorter period, then older employees.

The Helpline would therefore advise that you ask your employer for their reasons for this particular policy, and how they can justify this in light of the Equality Act 2010."

Re: Choosing holidays!

Mark Walsh — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 10:55:02 GMT

Hi all, I know my post was very far fetched and is very unlikely in all practices. It is also tough when working in a training practices and several nurses go to block release for 2 weeks, can't take a holiday during those times either.

Re: Choosing holidays!

Phrin Vernon RVN — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:43:52 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Mark Walsh"]Wouldn't it be nice if all bosses were to hire locums for the period you are going to go away for so that you can take it when you need it.[/quote]

Hope you're not serious. No practice could afford to double their wage bill!

[/quote]

Lol - Gillian I read Mark's post as a dream, a goal to work towards! Y'know - in the future someday, when RVN's and MRCVS's are actually being paid what they are worth! Just on a par with NHS staff nurses and GP's would be nice! 'Tho I think that's a bit optimistic :-(

Not sure what the grades mean, but at least they have grades! http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=766

Re: Choosing holidays!

Tracy Windler RVN — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:42:51 GMT

Sounds like crazy system. Is there a time limit for when they get to choose their first 2 weeks? I can understand using this system to decide who gets holiday, if two people have booked the same. But, its the system, so you'll probably have to work with it.

How do the other staff feel about it? Maybe it'll turn out that people are quite happy to swap and discuss the allocation of holidays.

My hubby works for Royal and they have all holidays allocated, but can try to swap once they know or request another week-they usually try to accomodate. Its just pretty crap when he gets a holiday early in the rota, as he has this week off and didn't realise til it was too late to swap, so has had a week off that he didn't need.

Re: Choosing holidays!

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:07:42 GMT

[quote user="Mark Walsh"]Wouldn't it be nice if all bosses were to hire locums for the period you are going to go away for so that you can take it when you need it.[/quote]

Hope you're not serious. No practice could afford to double their wage bill!

Re: Choosing holidays!

Mark Walsh — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:21:27 GMT

Wouldn't it be nice if all bosses were to hire locums for the period you are going to go away for so that you can take it when you need it. When working in a big hospital the summer months always get taken very quickly. My last place had a rule that you could not book off two christmases in successive years which I thought was fair.

Re: Choosing holidays!

Sally Seddon — Thu, 13 Jan 2011 16:06:01 GMT

Dont think its very fair that just because someone his 'higher' than you they get to choose their holidays first. Actually think thats pretty tight. We work simply on a first come first served basis and if you dont book them first then you loose out.

Re: Choosing holidays!

Shelly vn — Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:41:35 GMT

I used to work in a practice where there were lots of nurses and you could pick when you wanted holiday, but if there were 2 people that wanted holiday at the same time, then the person who had been there longest got to have the time off. Not very fair, but its difficult to please everyone!

Re: Choosing holidays!

Sal the 1st — Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:52:39 GMT

yup was just going to say that - I have worked in factories where you have had to take holidays at set dates to coincide with 'shutdown and repair'.

Doesnt sound to be a very accomodating system but then maybe there were problems in the past with everybody wanting the same holidays and this is how it came about?

Re: Choosing holidays!

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:21:24 GMT

It is unfair - but it is also legal. Holiday entitlement is at the discretion of the boss - as long as you can take your time off then they can set many conditions as to when that can be.

Can't be much of a recipe for a happy team!