Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Katie B — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:38:04 GMT

Thanks everyone for your hlep. I took him to my VN today and he said that he has stayed the same but we have to get it down. He has suggested I try Pedigree Chum light for 5 weeks and see if that makes a difference. If it doesn't then we are going to put him on the prescription diet plan and just get it gone. Just my biggest worry is that he will get joint problems in later life if it doens't go down. So tonight I introduced Pedigree and he loved it. No longer giving him wet food and he said if he doesn't eat his dry then take it away after 15 minutes, so he then has a consequence. So basically I have to be hard hearted and not give in to his wet food plea. He doesn't get treats or anything so I always felt bad if he didn't have wet but your all right in order to get his weight down I am going to have to just look the other way. Might just have to buy him a few more toys, lol. He is such a gorgeous man!! Anyway I will let you all know how we get on and when we get to his goal weight. Also, is their anything you can give them as a supplement for their joints? Is it expensive. I know Purina food have the joint care in them. I also heard their is a specially designed food just for labradors, is this correct?

I can assure you all we will get his weight down and he certainly won't be getting rehomed as I would be lost without him and he would be lost without me!

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Shelly vn — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:53:12 GMT

I agree with just putting a tiny amount of wet food with his dry. My goldie got really fussy a few years ago and wouldn't eat unless he had wet food, but i would only give him a dessert spoon full once a day. I've managed to completely wean him off now. I think someone else on here also mentioned Beta. I'm a big fan of Beta, its fairly well priced, but i don't think its a terrible quality food. My collie has food sensitivities and is supposed to be on a prescription diet, but even as a VN i can afford them! So he has the salmon and rice Beta and has so far been brilliant on it!

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Tracy Windler RVN — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:42:11 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"] I prefer high fat foods too which is why I am increasingly built like a mastiff and not an afghan hound).[/quote]

heeheehee! I have never, and will never look like an Afghan Hound, but I wouldn't describe you as a Mastiff, either POHM!

Agree to most of the above posts, except the part about re-homing, thats a teensy bit overboard (how to make a bad situation worse-by posting unnecessary comments like that!).

But, I know you feel he needs the can of wet food to make it palatable, so how bout you try putting the smallest amount in possible? My dog hardly ever has wet food, so when he does, he scoffs it down like its the last thing he's ever going to eat!

Don't feel that you are being cruel by feeding him less, or letting him go hungry for a few days (I wish someone would do that for me!). I'm sure you more than make up for it in walkies and cuddles!

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

wobbliebob — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:26:59 GMT

I wouldnt say it was too little an amount. My flattie's recommended food weight is 450g he has more like 300g. It looks really pififul in the bowl but its more than enough to keep him at a good weight.

Each dog is different, like the others were saying some dogs require more (or less) than a dog of a similar breed/shape.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Katie B — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 12:47:45 GMT

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

You could always go for the good old fashioned method of feeding chappie (tinned or dry) and mixing I know you are averse to it but a lot of vets are pretty keen on chappie (over other similar foods)

[/quote]

quite a few of my weight clinic clients were using this with good results and were happy with it - I was in a very poor income area - and also use veg to bulk it out. Makes you wonder how some animals survived before the fancy diets came out doesnt it?

[/quote]

Did not know that will give it a try. Going to weigh him today at the vets and see where we are at. It's only 3KG but to him actually that must be a lot of weight to lose. Tempted to take him down a little bit lower to 270Grams and then bulk it up ever so slightly with a quarter of a can of chappie wet. The bag says 25kg-40kg should be on 345grams, is that taking it down to low do you think? I suppose it is trial and error. People have said he looks like he has lost weight so will have a look today and see if he has gone down at all. Thank you everyone for the advice as I don't want him getting arthritus when he is 4 that is a big worry for me. My vet nurse wants him at 30 KG but really I think he needs to be about 27KG as his litttle legs.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Sal the 1st — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:53:33 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

You could always go for the good old fashioned method of feeding chappie (tinned or dry) and mixing I know you are averse to it but a lot of vets are pretty keen on chappie (over other similar foods)

[/quote]

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Katie B — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 22:04:26 GMT

Thanks, well I am going to my vet nurse on tuesday so will speak to him about it.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Louise B — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:41:39 GMT

You normally stay on the prescription diet until the target weight is reached and then switch to either a normal or 'light' diet.

One of the great things about dieting dogs is the huge increase in their motivation to perform behaviours that are food rewarded. which can make them much easier to train. So.... if you have any need to work on your dogs training then don't forget to use some/all of his daily ration to help reward him when training. Never look a gift horse in the mouth!

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Katie B — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:33:33 GMT

Thanks Princess, I will try the kong idea. If you do the prescription diet food do you have to keep him on it? or until his weight is down. He has always had a belly on him, the picture is the day we got him and you can see his short legs and belly. My vet nurse saaid if he was taller his weight would be fine.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Louise B — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:23:18 GMT

Katie - how much to feed massively depends on the individual dog.

I had a lab x collie (healthy weight was circa 28kg). I found that probably about 250 - 300g/day kept him at this weight; I know have a smaller collie x lab (healthy weight c19-20kg). I find that I need to give him close to 400g to keep the weight on him.

Likewise, I have two borders. One gets fat on 100g (healthy weight 9kg), the other needs 200 - 250g just to keep the weight on him (7-8kg).

Assuming your dog doesn't have any medical condition making him overweight, if he is overweight you are either currently feeding too much or you have fed too much in the past and now you are simply feeding enough food to maintain him at his current weight. Only you know the answer to that - is his weight constant or increasing?

Either way, you need to feed him less. You could always go for the good old fashioned method of feeding chappie (tinned or dry) and mixing it with loads of vegetables (non-starchy ones) to bulk it out a lot. If you make a stew that is almost all vegetables but throw it a small amount of tripe (get the frozen stuff from pet@home and just put in a couple of bits as it is really smelly which is what you want) and then add a bone from the butcher (befriend the butcher and you can pick up a bag of bones for about 10 - 50p) to help flavour the broth (remove the bones before feeding) and then use the broth and vegetables to both provide flavour and additional fibre/bulk to the diet. Much cheaper option than prescription diets and it does work but be prepared for loads of faeces. I know you are averse to it but a lot of vets are pretty keen on chappie (over other similar foods) and it is lower in fat than a lot of other dog foods (which is probably one of the reasons why it is less palatable to some dogs but not a reason to reject it - I prefer high fat foods too which is why I am increasingly built like a mastiff and not an afghan hound).

TBH - I feed supermarket-type cheap brands and have done for almost their entire lives and spend about £15/month to feed 3 dogs. There is no shame in switching to a cheaper brand and, given your circumstances at the moment (I read the other thread you posted) may be it would be the overall most sensible thing to do.

I make them work for at least 50% of their ration every day - through a mixture of kongs, pyramids or, the best of all, scatter it across the garden or in the hedgerow out on walks so that they have to forage for it. If you make up the broth I would stuff a kong a day with the mixture plus chappie and stick it in the freezer. Take it out about 10 minutes before you want to use it. Makes the kong go much further.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Katie B — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:06:15 GMT

He definately is the right pet for me and I certainly won't be giving him up at all. I will get there I'm sure. Plus the reason we can't afford it is I have just been made redundant, we are about to move into my partners parents to start saving so then I will be able to provide what he needs. But he has never gone without, we was completly broke a month ago and could afford his food or ours and I bought his food. Life is tough at the moment for everyone and he is the one thing that cheers me up so I think to suggest I can't care for him is incredibly unfair and a little harsh in my opinion. My partner is a cab driver so the recession has hit us very hard. And now I have lost my job. But anyways just wanted to put that across as 2010 I admit was utterly shit for me and my partner but when I get back on my feet he will be getting his diet plan sorted 100% and I will post on here when he reaches his goal weight! Anyway 2011 is a new start, I start college in September and when I qualify, I plan to do a lot of nuitrition based courses to help clients like myself as I will understand and won't judge everyone by the same book!

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 20:52:45 GMT

Hi Katie,

I know what Gillian said seemed really harsh and tough but honestly you have to cut the crap when it comes to labs and overweight dogs. They don't really have any sense of feeling full and will eat what they want all day long, similar to horses, which is not good for them! You also need to keep in mind that if they think you will give them something they like vs what they don't like they will play the game to get what they want!! you can't fall for it you have to be strong about it. As frustrating as it may be to hear such things, Gillian is not a vet nurse but a VET and knows her stuff. I would take her comment to heart and really think about how you are not really helping your dog. Starving a little may be the best way to go for a little while and just be tough! If you can't afford the food to get this dog healthy then maybe this isn't the right pet for you. As their health is prime importance for them to have a active and happy life.

[quote user="Katie Brocklebank"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Katie Brocklebank"]And I refuse to just let him go hungary, yes I know it's not bad for them but I feel too guilty.[/quote]

You're right - being hungry is not bad for a dog at all. Being overweight is. Your choice.

[/quote]

He is by no means a barrell of a dog and we are trying! A day after we got him the vet said he was overweight, so this certainly isn't something that I have caused! He is getting fed about 70 grams less than what is on the recommended packet which my Vet Nurse has agreed with me. I certainly don't think starving him is the answer, fine if he refuses the food but two days is too much. Your right it is my choice but I certainly don't think me feeding him (what my vet nurse has agreed) is that bad. It's so frustrating when you get comments like this when I am trying my best and doing whats right for my dog by not feeding him treats or titbits and still not getting thee results. Anyway thanks everone for the replies, the obese diet food is the way forward when we can afford £65.00 for the bag!

[/quote]

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Katie B — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 20:44:49 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Katie Brocklebank"]And I refuse to just let him go hungary, yes I know it's not bad for them but I feel too guilty.[/quote]

You're right - being hungry is not bad for a dog at all. Being overweight is. Your choice.

[/quote]

He is by no means a barrell of a dog and we are trying!

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Kim Buckley — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:51:37 GMT

I have two dogs who were both overweight and on wet food. I put them onto JWB light and it took them a while but they did eat it and lost weight. I was incredibly strict with them and if they didn't eat it then they went hungry. Sounds harsh but it worked and they now eat it straight away. My collie x has hip dysplasia and losing weight has made such a difference in her. She is now 14 and you wouldn't think it.

Being a labrador I would be very keen to get the weight off of him as they are so prone to joint problems. I don't know about a cheaper alternative but you do get what you pay for. I know paying out for a large bag, it does seem a lot but it works out a lot cheaper than you would think and it's a lot cheaper than wet food because you have to feed less. Dry food also does wonders for their teeth!

If you do find a diet that suits him then weigh him regularly and adjust the amount you feed him according to that and not what is on the packet.

Hope you find something that works for him and best of luck!

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:30:30 GMT

[quote user="Katie Brocklebank"]And I refuse to just let him go hungary, yes I know it's not bad for them but I feel too guilty.[/quote]

You're right - being hungry is not bad for a dog at all. Being overweight is. Your choice.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Honeybadger — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:21:48 GMT

What does the feeding guide on the food say for a 30kg dog? I find that they always advise more than is nessesary. All dogs are individual but for example the feeding guide for JWB kibble that I feed my dog recommends 345g a day for a 24kg. I only actually feed her 270g a day (120g in am and 150g in pm) She happily maintains her weight with this amount of food. I weigh her every couple of months and if her weight has gone up a bit I reduce it by 20g a day untill it has come back down.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Katie B — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:54:21 GMT

Thanks, he gets about two hours a day exercise, any more than that and he doesn't get up when I get the lead. Didn't realise Beta did a diet dog food so will check that out. So would you say 330 grams and a can of butchers a day is too much. This is split into two meals?

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

molladog — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 09:44:27 GMT

I am afraid there is no other way of looking at it, there are too many calories going in compared to what is being burnt off. I would get a a 15kg bag of something like Beta light which is approx 20 -25 pounds/bag, weigh the recommended amount out and split that into two meals. As you say he won't eat dry kibble without meat then add some raw tripe which you can buy cheaply in frozen blocks. If you do that then I would reduce the amount of Kibble slightly. A dog will eat if it is hungry so you will have to harden your heart,(hard I know) and not give in. We all tend to feed our animals more than they actually need. Take the food away if he doesn't eat it after 15mins, it won't hurt him and he will be hungrier next time. Also try to increase exercise which I am sure you are doing. Hope this helps. It's hard on a budget.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Katie B — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 01:46:54 GMT

Thanks, what you say makes sense. But the weight loss obese food is £65.00 and I know what your saying in regards to working it out on a daily cost but we CAN'T afford £46.00 for a bag of food. I am taking him every month to the vet nurse and he has stayed the same, not gone up or down. Like I say I would love to have money to buy him these food and our vet nurse wants to do the obese dog food but we just can't afford it. Surely there is a diet dog food out there that isn't over £40.00 a bag? It's so frustrating because we are doing everything we can, he doesn't get treats or titbits but he is always been heavy. When he was a pup he had a chunky belly and really short legs, my vets thought he was a cross breed and we had been conned but he is full pedigree.

It's nothing terrible though. My nurse said he is a 3.5 and normal dogs are a 3.0. It's just frustrating because I say we can't afford the food and I get back a suggestion of £65 for obese food or £40 for a diet food. As a client it feels like you are being questioned in regards to how much you love your dog and if you do then you MUST buy the expensive foods. Sorry for rant and this is by no means aimed at you because everything you said was brilliant advice. It's just so frustrating when you have someone suggesting something and you think 'am I talking in a different language?', we can't afford the expensive food but my dog goes without nothing. He has exercise, love, toys you name it but we just can't afford so much on monthly dog kibble that he gets bored of eating after two weeks.

Again just to reiterate this is by no means aimed at your answer, it's more my vet nurse, just feel like he doesn't listen thats all. Anyway thank you for the advice and when we have more money I will look into the obese system to get his weight down.

Re: Diet dog food? Dusty needs your help!

Susan Jackson — Sat, 08 Jan 2011 23:36:45 GMT

Hi,

Your current situation is no different from some of the clients I get through my door. You are worried about your dogs weight and are limited on funds for paying for food. You are also worried about giving your dog a good diet with good nutrition.

From what your saying your dog turns his nose up at dry dog food. There may be two reasons for ths. Dogs like to eat, some scoff and some graze. Your dog may turn his nose up for the poor quality in food, as palatablity is hard to achieve in poor quality ingredients. What would you think tasted better the cheap supermarket ready meal or one of their more expensive better quality foods? Why?

The other reason is your dog simply may be trying to regulate his food and is just full up. Dry food is far more concentrated than wet food. Wet food is 80% water so a large bowl of wet food freeze dried and pressed would in reality be a small portion in the bowl. So when he's full he stops eating, and he must be getting full cos he's overweight.

The second issue is price, think of how much you are prepared to spend a day feeding your dog a good quality food and helping him to achieve weight loss, how much do you spend now?

When your looking at the bag of food and going oh my god how much, don't forget to check how much you feed and what that would cost per day. These cheaper foods arn't as cheap as you think when you look at what you feed per day. For example a well known prescription food costs approx £44.90 for 12kg.( I haven't got feeding guidlines so this is approx). If you had to feed you dog 200g daily the 12kg would last 60 days. this makes your cost per day £44.90 / 60 = 75p per day. I bet this is cheaper than you thought.

James well beloved is a good food but it won't be as successful as a proper weight loss diet. The reason for this is you have to give you dog less than he needs to get a weight loss. This also means you cut down vitamins and minerals too. The prescription weight loss diets cut the calories so you feed proper amounts of food. As an owner I would feel better knowing I'm giving my dog a full days food not cheating him with a measly portion.

The other benefits to the weight loss diets is their protein levels are slightly higher, which sets off a chemical reaction to switch off the hunger sensor in the brain. They are high in fibre which literally fills them up switching on the I feel full sensor in the tummy. This reduces the begging for food so if they are hanghing around it's cos they want your love.

The fibre is usually soluble unlike cheaper diets meaning what goes in does not come out = smaller poo's to clean up.

I'm a big believer in using the prescription weight loss diets until needed and then getting on to a good quality Light diet and regular weight checks.

I just wanted to let you know that there are a few VN's with fat cats and dogs, I'm one with a cat that gets fed at other homes and is arthritic so not as active. He's about 1 month away from target now but it has been really hard work. My advise would be go to regular weigh-ins with your nurse, most of these clinics a free (some places charge), they help you stay focused.

I hope this has been helpful. Good luck