Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Louise B — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:10:36 GMT

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/document-library/guide-to-professional-conduct-for-veterinary-nurses/

RVN code of conduct; Section Part 1. C. 1.f.

"A Veterinary nurse must .... supply, administer and, if an SQP working from registered premises,

prescribe medicinal products responsibly"

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Sal the 1st — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 01:13:58 GMT

interesting thread - I worked as a dispenser in a human GP practice for a short time doing either the second check or putting out drugs for somebody else to second check. So if we are saying we cant count out pills are we saying that we are more restricted than a GP practice? honestly there are so many rules and regulations at the moment and people keen to bring in even more that I am surprised any work gets done at all in practice.

Latest one I heard was a group of behaviourists who are saying that no socialisation or behaviour advice should be given by anybody in practice unless they hold their qualification. We have somebody else saying that nurses arent aware enough to know about their own practice policy on cremations - do they really believe that those of us who have lost pets and had them cremated through the practices we work at ( ie the same service that is offered to the general public) would use a service that was less than satisfactory. You bet this person would like to open discussion with the veterinary nurses - and before you know it there will be a course and a certificate, it will become 'law' and then there will be something else for the practice to shell out on.

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Katie Mansfield — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 09:00:22 GMT

If we're not supposed to be counting out pills why are we being taught this at uni? Yesterday in my practical mock exam I was given a scenario of a 10kg dog needing 12.5mg/kg synulox bid for 21 days. We had to calculate the number of pills needed, put them in a suitable container and write out the label (ok dose rate prob not right, but they did it like that to give us a chance at the math!!!).

Surely they wouldn't teach us and examine us on this is we weren't gonna be legally allowed to perform it in practice??????

K x

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Selena Carnell — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 20:48:02 GMT

Me to pls sjcarnell77@gmail.com

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

KizzieB — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 23:13:02 GMT

Hey Carol,

I'm goin back into practice after being out for a whlie, this sounds like a good refresher; and saying as every1else is requesting 1, can i have 1 too please?

Thank-you

naoimhctoner@hotmail.com

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Sarah Southworth RVN CertVNECC — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 18:42:45 GMT

could i have copy too please ?

thanks

sarahsms@hotmail.co.uk

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

vickicannings — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:46:31 GMT

Hi Carol,

Would be really great if I could have a copy too if you still have it? Address is vicki_cannings@yahoo.co.uk

Vicki

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Emma Gerrard Dip AVN (SA) DipHe CVN BSc (Hons) CVN RVN KSQP RAM — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:09:03 GMT

Could I have a copy too please. I have awful trouble with this in pratice

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Nicola Smith — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:52:10 GMT

Hi, can I have a copy too please as due our inspection soon!!

Nicky@uknation.co.uk

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Helen Tottey — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 12:41:48 GMT

unless you are a SQP you cannot dispence POM-V etc medication.

It is my understanding as an SQP that you can make the decision to dispense to regisitered or unregistered clients, without vet involvement these category of drugs POM- VPS, NFA-VPS.

I don't think the SQP status has anything to do with counting out tablets into bottles and applying labels behind the scenes, it is more to do with decision making. could be wrong though as it is stupid that RVN can not do this regardless of SQP status!!

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

esther parry — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:32:17 GMT

Any chance I could have a copy emailed as well , am in the same boat -vets@exetervets.co.uk.

thanks

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

BengalcatRVN — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 23:09:23 GMT

[quote user="Karen Skelton RVN"]

i've just been looking into the the 'laws' and i'm also confused now....though i think it can be easily misinterpreted!

[/quote]

Name a law that ever makes sense! lol!

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Karen Skelton — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 22:40:25 GMT

i've just been looking into the the 'laws' and i'm also confused now....though i think it can be easily misinterpreted!

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Karen Skelton — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 22:11:39 GMT

the vets write on the file: drug, amount, dose and we nurses (and auxillary's) put them up! at my last practice the receptions used to and still do do the dispencing. I cant see it changing anytime soon either

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

BengalcatRVN — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 19:38:54 GMT

[quote user="Karen Skelton RVN"]

As part of the portfolio criteria last year as a SVN, i had to correctly dispence medication from all catogories (NFA, POM, POM-V, controlled drug etc). Vets were not required to check that it had been done correctly. I now regularly put up medication unchecked. Hope this helps!

[/quote]

All medication should be ok'd by a veterinary surgeon, unless you are a SQP you cannot dispence POM-V etc medication. We've noticed this slip-up in the portfolio, but have said to the nurses that the vets must ok the disp (which is usually recorded in the book or on the computer system) for the nurses to correctly calculate, show the vet and can then prepare under the vets guidence. The 'folio was written befor the changes to the dispencing law, and I guess they couldn't be bothered to change it as they brought out this new "portfolio" instead. It might not say they have to check in the 'folio, but the law is the law!! Even as an RVN, I double check everything with the veterinary surgeon, I don't want to risk my job by doing something silly and being caught.

Trust me, if I ever did it, I'd get found out! Panicked and travelled on a train without a ticket. First time ever. Instant Penalty fare :( sucked.

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Deemus — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:55:17 GMT

Hi Carol,

Could I possibly scrounge a copy too please? We're having awful problems at our place with the very same thing!

Dee

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Carol Cottrell — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:21:15 GMT

Hi Jen,

can you let me have your email address too please? :)

PS Have a pillow at the ready!!!!

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Jen — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 15:58:34 GMT

Hi Carol,

Would you mind emailing me a copy too please??

Thanks loads

Jen

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Carol Cottrell — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:06:46 GMT

Hi Izzie,

I have spent ages researching/writing a protocol for dispensing as it really is ambiguous. Have tried to cover every option (more for if we ever get an inspection from VMD so we are seen to be doing as we should be) so if it helps I can email you.

Carol x

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Karen Skelton — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:02:22 GMT

Re: Counting out tablets/assisting the vet

Phrin Vernon RVN — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 20:10:30 GMT

Hmmm... my understanding is that VN's can put up drugs prescribed by the VS, and that in theory VS should check each bottle/tube/tub etc of meds once put up before giving them out to the client.

Not sure where I read/heard this - perhaps I dreamed it

I think that a VS prescribing, and either a nurse or an SQP putting up the drugs, with another member of staff checking and initialling prescriptions/labels should be fine, and this is what I have always done in practice.

Not 100% sure on the legalities though