dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Saskia Quinn — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:16:33 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]

Speaking about dogs eating horse faecies reminds me of a weid toxic case we had in a few years back.

The dog a collie X was prone to eating horse sh*t and collapsed. It turned out that the horses had been wormed with ivomec. It was a throwaway comment that the owner made that gave us the clue

[/quote]

and that makes me think of Ivermectin and Collies - dangerous and death can result

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Caro Laithwaite VN — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:27:10 GMT

Speaking of cats and toilets you may like the cartoons l just uploaded into the funnies section from my cartoon pile

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Caro Laithwaite VN — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:18:09 GMT

Speaking about dogs eating horse faecies reminds me of a weid toxic case we had in a few years back.

The dog a collie X was prone to eating horse sh*t and collapsed. It turned out that the horses had been wormed with ivomec. It was a throwaway comment that the owner made that gave us the clue

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Noodle — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:31:39 GMT

Well I got a covered tray, and problem solved - No more piles of 'cat sh*t crumble' (lol sal - love that) all over the house!! Keeps the pong factor down too - kitty has a rather fragrant digestive system!

Have also started giving her (doggle) a bit of wet food with her kibble, and a rawhide chew which she loves

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Yvette Patton RVN MBVNA — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:25:15 GMT

I can sympathise with you, two of mine eat cat poo. I have a sand paddock at home for the horses which is like the neighbourhood's biggest cat litter tray, they dig it up and eat it! ugh gross!

They also come up to the stables and all 4 of them sit on the muck pile and eat horse poo. I just make sure they are wormed regularly, have never managed to break the habit. Good luck!

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Saskia Quinn — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:37:36 GMT

and I though my boys were bad the the aroma of hidden food days later!!!

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:35:17 GMT

[quote user="Jenny T"]

StephB,

You sound as daft about your cat as I am about mine!!

One of mine also has certain calls which I can recognise. He has a "I've brought something live into the house" meow. I always jump up when I hear that 1. He brought a huge grass snake into the house once and released it into the hall, and then told me about it!

[/quote]

i had the grass snake and we all know that meow!! my grass snake unfortunatly was brought from the courtyard, through the cat flap, across the kitchen, into the living room onto the carpet, bleeding and leaking it's awful stinky gland playing dead. I wasn't impressed, i took it to work and had it put down. poor thing had gone through all it's defense mechanisms and was poorly injured on the back end. I think a lawn mower got him and then Trouble just brought him home to me. We also lost a vole in our bedroom which then smelled lovely a couple of days later under the bed....

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Jenny T — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:22:30 GMT

StephB,

You sound as daft about your cat as I am about mine!!

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Anonymous — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:59:11 GMT

excellent reply Jenny thanks for that! A lot of this I have worked out myself with her but it's nice to know i'm not losing my mind! she's a crafty lil brat! but i have also reinforced the head butting and the stare as you listed above. I also ask her questions to which she will respond in certain pitches and types of meows. it's like we have our own understanding. like listening to a baby's cry i can work out what she wants. i'm fairly intuitive and observant, but my other half isn't. i can sit there and work out what she wants or is going to do before she does it. for instance when she wants her water refreshed she stares and blinks at me on my chest in bed, or i know she likes to have a drink when she gets up so i ask her 'do you want some waters?' to which she responds with a meow in a short upper pitch(Yes) or elongated downward meow(NO). Or Martin will be playing with her or stroking her and I say you might want to stop.. she's gonna bite you. Then she bites him when he doesn't stop. LOL! I also try to communicate with her with blinking and she regularly headbuts me or lightly bites my hand then kisses it.

I thank god that she talks to me because it enables me to know what's going on with her. I would have never found her in the shed that night after she was hit if she didn't call out to me when i was calling for her.

[quote user="Jenny T"]

Hi StephB,

Yes, it's a good point, and I've found much easier to do with dogs than cats.

For dogs, in this case, you are rewarding for the recall. That's why I suggest calling the dog first. Remember that with training the reward has to be immediate in order for it to be linked with the behaviour. If you feel that the dog is beginning to link the litter tray with the reward, then it's fairly simple to add in another step (or more), eg recall then ask for a "down", then reward that behaviour. It is very important in training that everything is kept positive for the animal. A stressed or worried animal can't learn as effectively as a happy, relaxed one.

Cats, well that's a totally different kettle of fish! It is not unusual for these clever critters to figure out that they can elicit attention from owners by doing things we consider naughty. My Siamese very effectively trained my husband to give him attention by biting various items of furniture. I fixed this but now the cat has escalated the behaviour by standing in front of my husband and threatening to spray the furniture instead!! Interestingly my Siamese does not try this on with me. I do watch with a professional interest as the cat does these things to my husband though!!

I've known a few Siamese to do these types of behaviours, and interestingly I read that the ocicat has Siamese in it's breeding. The absolutely very best thing to do is ignore the behaviour, completely. This means don't even look at the cat. No reinforcement will eventually lead to extinction of the behaviour. Do note though that the "strongest" reinforcement occurs if you occasionally, sometimes reinforce the behaviour (the principal used to addict people to slot machines). So if you ignore the behaviour 9 times, but then react the 10th time, you will encourage the behaviour more strongly than if you react every time!

If you don't feel that everyone can ignore the behaviour (husbands and children are always a problem!), then you can try and anticipate the behaviour and teach the cat a more appropriate means of getting attention. So if the cat tends to come and eg stare at you, nudge you before doing something naughty for attention etc, take note of that and respond at that stage with attention and a play session. The cat then does not need to escalate the behaviour for attention and will learn the more appropriate sign to give you.

Also look at why the cat is prepared to be told off just to get attention from you. Does it have enough stimulation, attention, play-times with you, interesting and stimulating toys etc. It may be worthwhile starting a daily play time. eg every evening have a dedicated play session for the cat for 20mins or so. Use toys which stimulate the cats hunting behaviour, tunnels, boxes etc. Also, does the cat have outdoor access. This can be so important for many cats.

Sometimes however the behaviour is such that you can't ignore it (eg furniture spraying). In these cases you may have to add a punishment. I would advise walking to the cat, picking it up and putting it outside the room and shutting the door for a few minutes (so it can't get back to you). Don't speak to the cat while doing this. Certainly don't shout at it or anything like that as cats are very sensitive to any negativity from owners. It is though REALLY important that you don't use this method without looking at why the cat is looking for extra attention and taking steps to address that. Otherwise you will just end up with a miserable kitty and worse behaviour.

Hope this answers your question.

[/quote]

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:13:47 GMT

[quote user="Noodle"]

I think I will have to try the covered tray as others have said, although I suspect demon pooch will just stick her head through the flap and munch away![/quote]

My dog did this and it stopped as soon as I got a covered tray - no idea why cos I also expected her to just put her head in...but she didn't. Good luck though!

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Jenny T — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:00:11 GMT

Hi StephB,

Yes, it's a good point, and I've found much easier to do with dogs than cats.

Hope this answers your question.

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Anonymous — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:38:46 GMT

Jenny what's the best way to teach the 'no go' with out reinforcing the behaviour of going to the litter box = getting a treat? i know there is a fine line between rewarding the bad behaviour in some cases. what's the best way to not do this? for example my Ocicat has worked out when she gets told off she gets attention, be it bad or good.

[quote user="Jenny T"]

Hi Noodle,

An option of changing the behaviour slightly to something more acceptable could be buying a few kongs, fill them with something really tasty and then hide them around the house and let her go and search for them (help her find them the first few times until she gets the idea).

You need a high value food to stuff them with at this stage (ie higher value to her than the cat poo, hide chews appear to be an inferior option!), so something she really likes. I like using sensitivity control as it's really sticky so does not just fall out. Chappie wet should be good too (can't remember how sticky it is). You can also try freezing the stuffed kongs first as this makes the filling last longer. The idea then is that she can go and find the kong and food, play with it and eat it, rather than doing all this with the cat poo. Use a specific command for finding the kongs eg "fetch kong" (high pitched, happy voice).

If she heads to the litter tray I would suggest a firm "No", call her to you, reward her for the recall ("cleaver girl") and then tell her to "fetch kong" if there are some already hidden, or ask her to sit and stay while you hide a kong. Then tell her to "fetch kong". I would play the fetch kong game each day for now to try and give her something else to focus on rather than the litter tray.

I would make the whole litter tray a no go area for the dog. So no looking at it, sniffing near it or focusing on it in any way. Very important if you tell her "No" to always reward her for obeying this, then preferably distract with the kong game.

Try it out, hopefully she will get the hang of it pretty quickly. Do still try her with the wet diet as I think this may well help with the problem also.

[/quote]

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Jenny T — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:56:34 GMT

Hi Noodle,

If she heads to the litter tray I would suggest a firm "No", call her to you, reward her for the recall ("clever girl") and then tell her to "fetch kong" if there are some already hidden, or ask her to sit and stay while you hide a kong. Then tell her to "fetch kong". I would play the fetch kong game each day for now to try and give her something else to focus on rather than the litter tray.

Try it out, hopefully she will get the hang of it pretty quickly. Do still try her with the wet diet as I think this may well help with the problem also.

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Anonymous — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:14:01 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]

Well as a thought how about the litter system that teaches your cat to use the human toilet. Scroll half way down the page on the link.

https://www.petplanet.co.uk/category.asp?dept_id=46&pf_id=0&page_id=2

[/quote]

great concept but only if you have a multi bathroom household. if kitty needs the toilet and someone is in there, kitty will soil the house. (did my research on the litter kwitter ages ago)

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Vicky RVN — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 12:31:48 GMT

I know for a fact if i had a cat my hound would be eating poop on a very regular basis! He manages to get hold of guinea pig poo on occasions and loves it, and loves the horse and cow poo in the forest! Dogs really are gross aren't they?! But we still love 'em!

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Caro Laithwaite VN — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:50:57 GMT

Well as a thought how about the litter system that teaches your cat to use the human toilet. Scroll half way down the page on the link.

https://www.petplanet.co.uk/category.asp?dept_id=46&pf_id=0&page_id=2

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Saskia Quinn — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:05:16 GMT

my dogs also eat the contents of the litter tray - its disgusting!! Out here in the country, they have also been known to eat cow poo, rabbit poo, goats poo, even the cleaning from a recently calved cow

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Noodle — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:03:54 GMT

Hi Jenny T!

I have seen threads 'calling' you lol, and thanks for dropping in on my humble 'dog eats cat s*it' thread haha!

Another poster mentioned getting wet food for the doggie, so I will try that as soon as poss. A kong is something I have been meaning to get her since I rescued her, but just never got around to.... She has tripe chews every time she 'goes in her kennel' and she bounds in there quite happily! In fact she comes to get me if I'm having a late night on t'interweb and reminds me she wants her chew and kennel!!

I do clean the tray as often as poss, but she often seems to beat me to it! The reason I am against getting a covered tray is that it might be a while before I realise it's dirty - by which time hound dog has played with the poo! Although that's no diferent to what is happening now, so I think I'll try it.

How do I change the behaviour? What do I do if I catch her at the tray? I bought her a hide chew today, and she just dismissed it (after growling at the cat!)...

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Noodle — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:52:09 GMT

[quote user="StephB"]

my only other suggestion would be to train her then. maybe try some clicker training. encouraging when she doesn't do it and then distracting her and then rewarding her when she's focused elsewhere. teaching her the command of Leave It. You could also try the DAP diffusers, its possible its a territorial thing. She may feel too closed up with the small flat and cat being there. Some rescue dogs have been through some very uncomfortable times. Zylkene would also be an option to see if she responds to the comfort in the closed space. Does she have lots of toys? Have you tried raw carrots for chews? raw chicken wings can be very filling too and good for the teeth. :)

[/quote]

Thanks Steph

Funny you should mention DAP, as I have just found a diffuser today from my old pooch, so would only need a refill.

She has tons of toys, and is very tennis ball orientated. She is also crate trained (post rescue), so thankfully she can't wake me up with 'presents' as she is in the crate overnight.

She also loves raw carrot, which I give her often, along with tripe chews (which STINK!!)

I have no experience of clicker training, so would need pointers on how to go about that.

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:49:16 GMT

[quote user="Noodle"]

Hi Katy

I wish she did bloody just eat it! I do NOT appreciate finding a litter covered cat turd on my newly changed bed sheets! Grrrr!

I think I will have to try the covered tray as others have said, although I suspect demon pooch will just stick her head through the flap and munch away!

[/quote]

~One of mine does this, and she sticks her head through the flap no problems, thenkfully I have the tray on the middle landing and a babygate on, so she only gets up there if someone forgets to close the gate.This morning she had a lovely litter beard... she eats the poo though, so I am not picking it from anywhere, well apart from her teethOnly kidding and hopefully no one gagged at my.......... well gag lolol

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Jenny T — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:37:26 GMT

Keep in mind that this is perfectly normal behaviour for dogs. It has been put forward that the reason man and dogs first associated was because dogs can eat pretty much anything and turn it into protein, which people could then eat.

It sounds to me like your dog craves a wetter diet. Try changing to Chappie tins mixed with a biscuit to make it complete.

Keep the litter trays out of the way as much as possible and clean out as soon as they are used. Try giving the dog a kong stuffed with something yummy to play with to distract it from thinking about raiding the trays, or try long lasting chews such as hide.

You are more likely to stop the dog doing this if you change the behaviour slightly to something more acceptable, ie from playing with and eating faeces, to playing with and eating a hide chew, rather than just trying to stop the behaviour completely.

Good luck

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:32:17 GMT

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Noodle — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:26:05 GMT

Hi Katy

I wish she did bloody just eat it! I do NOT appreciate finding a litter covered cat turd on my newly changed bed sheets! Grrrr!

I think I will have to try the covered tray as others have said, although I suspect demon pooch will just stick her head through the flap and munch away!

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Noodle — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:22:40 GMT

[quote user="StephB"]

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

mmm.. another 'cats**t crumble' eater - try leaving the litter tray down purposely for the dog to get at and using a hint of tobasco on the solids - worked a treat with a vets dog I used to work with. Could you put the litter tray elsewhere for the mog?

[/quote]

as far as i know eating the cat poo is harmless.

does the dog do this at a time of the day? can you switch the cats to a wet diet and feed them separately and take up what ever they don't finish? can you offer the dog a dry food? I would suggest the litter box be moved and you get a covered one. OR leave it open and have a bucket and scoop near by so you can clean it often when you pass by.

you might also find this link helpful. http://www.dogtrainingbasics.com/Poop%20Eaters%20Anonymous.htm

the other option would be to put the cat food on a counter or table somewhere that the dog cannot get it.

[/quote]

Hi Steph

Doggie eats whenever the poo arrives! No set pattern!

The cats food is now away from the dog on a ledge, so she can't get to it (she is most pi**ed off lol) - I may try doggie on a wet food so that she eats hers and therefore isn't hungry enough for poo, but to be honest, I don't think it will make a difference - she is one of those dogs that will eat till they pop!

There is no where else I can move the tray to as my flat is tiiiny! And I do pick up the cat turds as soon as I see them... though doggie often smells them out first :(

ETA - thankyou for the link! I will check it out

Re: dog helping herself to breakfast from the litter tray...

Noodle — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:18:13 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

[/quote]

Hi Sal

I'll try the tabasco! Unfortunately I live in a tiny flat and there is no where else for the litter tray to go :(