Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

epartrick — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 20:48:10 GMT

Thanks, I now don't feel in the wrong when I get asked to do this. Before I thought I was doing something wrong

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Steph Phillips — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:01:29 GMT

LOL!! sorry dinkyd if I confused you ..

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

dinkyd — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:15:43 GMT

LOL gotcha now!See how damn confusing that was!Totally agree...completely undermines the whole profession and makes a complete mockery.

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Kim Buckley — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:13:18 GMT

[quote user="dinkyd"]

Steph, are you refering to giving general anaesthetics i/v being more safer than a svn monitoring/administering gaseous aneasthesia?(hope that makes sense?!)May have picked you up wrong!

Giving anaesthetic drugs i/v i feel is a lot more dangerous than gaseous anaesthesia...you would have a patent airway and also be able to ventilate the patient/quickly adjust the depth of anaesthesia fairly quickly and maintain on o2 until a suitable plane of anaesthesia achieved compared to just administering injectable agent.

[/quote]

No what she meant is that giving an injection or placing an IV is schedule 3 stuff and so you need to be qualified or a supervised student whereas monitoring an anaesthetic isn't. She then said that surely giving an injection is less dangerous than monitoring an anaesthetic.

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

dinkyd — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:10:28 GMT

Steph, are you refering to giving general anaesthetics i/v being more safer than a svn monitoring/administering gaseous aneasthesia?(hope that makes sense?!)May have picked you up wrong!

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Kim Buckley — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:03:57 GMT

I don't get a lot of stuff the RCVS say! All needs a shake up!

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Steph Phillips — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:56:39 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

It is stupid that it doesn't come under schedule 3 but the way they get around it is by saying it's the vet who is monitoring the animal and telling the nurse what dials to turn. It's so stupid! You could easily kill an animal if you *** up a GA but I doubt you would do a huge amount of damage placing an IV wrongly!

[/quote]

Exactly!! Thats what I was trying to say, but you just worded it FAR better than I did! . Also.. A vet could easily tell a non qualified where to inject.. too me, injecting is less dangerous than monitoring.. I don't get it..

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Kim Buckley — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:53:47 GMT

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Cloudy Weather — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:52:11 GMT

Would you say the majority of practices in the UK would have a svn supervised?

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

ereveley — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:46:44 GMT

Its scary that some svns are monitoring anaesthetics, with no real training. Iv lost animals under GA before (thankfully not to do with me but due to animals condition) and it is so scary. I had been aloud to do the odd GA monitoing before i was enrolled and didn't realise the importance of having the knowledge - i wouldn't allow a svn to monitor an anesthetic unless im happy for them to monitor my own animal. Its ourjob as rvns to teach them, and make sure they are competent to monitor GA's.

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Phrin Vernon RVN — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:35:16 GMT

You would think so eh?

I've seen nurses turn a deep animal up even deeper because it starts to show signs of stage 4 and they think it is too light, despite already being on 3-3.5% iso

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Steph Phillips — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:30:27 GMT

This is a topic that pickels me .. so I'm hoping that someone can answer something for me..

Why is it that "anyone" can monitor anesthetic, but only RVN or VN's can give injections / take blood/ insert caths etc?? surely monitoring an animals LIFE (in my opinion) is considered more of a 'challenge' - if thats the right word?!!

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Polly P — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 19:53:49 GMT

I monitored solo from my second day in practice. Not appropriate!

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Cloudy Weather — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 15:53:05 GMT

It does make me feel better you guys are saying this. As a newbie I am not really sure what is expected of me and having this kind of responsibility so quickly is really quite scary, I am glad I am not alone. I was very worried that I was just being weak in my acceptance of this responsiblity but when it comes to an animals life I want to be sure I am ready and I am doing things correctly.

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Jeniflower — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 15:11:21 GMT

Well Said Kim!!

I was left to monitor anaesthetics before I'd undergone any training, its pretty scary. I certainly wouldn't have trusted myself with my animal's GA back then.

My personal opinion is that trainees should be carrying it out under direct supervision of an RVN. I know in some places this just isn't possible as there are staffing issues but to me, it is unacceptable now. We really should be striving for higher standards all the time & not having an RVN on an anaesthetic is seriously dark ages stuff.

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Cloudy Weather — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:50:00 GMT

I am a week into being a trainee vet nurse and its all very daunting. Im pretty sure that very soon I will be expected to monitor the animal on my own.

What kind of new things did you learn in your 2nd year transitional course?

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Stella Skelton RVN — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:53:29 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

[/quote]

I totally agree...I've just started learning anaesthesia (2nd year-transitional course) and it has also amazed me at how little i know regarding this topic and i've been doing it for almost 3 years now!! eek!!

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Kim Buckley — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 09:38:45 GMT

Anybody who the vet feels competant can monitor an anaesthetic as it should ultimately be the vet telling that person what to do.

I personally think this is totally ridiculous as if the vet is up to their elbows in dog abdomen, they aren't going to have any idea how the dogs anaesthetic is going!

I think that ideally no SVN should be left unsupervised monitoring an anaesthetic. I was left to monitor anaesthetics when I was at L2 and so hadn't done any theory. When I did do the theory it actually really scared me how little I knew and how easily things could go wrong! I have just started working in a referral centre and so have anaesthetists and fancy equipment and I am still learning heap loads!

If my animals needed an op I would want a QVN monitoring it! Not because SVN's aren't competant but how should they know what to if things go wrong when they have been taught and tested on it.

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

sarahjune84 — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 07:47:03 GMT

I always thought anyone nurse or non nurse could monitor a ga as its the vet whos responsable for the animal. Think of all the practices that have lay staff and no QVN, I dont agree with this but im sure thats right.

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

Sally Seddon — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 07:35:47 GMT

Our tutor said its ok as long as we are under supervision

Re: Trainee nurses and anaesthetics

littlehays — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:57:15 GMT

isn't that okay as they would be under the supervision of the vet operating? not sure i got that right though.