It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Nikki Armstrong — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:28:13 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing"]

I don't have kids but I think it's really bad how the majority of practices treat VN's who have them. I think it's a real shame that so many mothers are forced out of practice because their needs can't be catered for. There are very few careers which have this attitude. I can understand that it would be a hassle for practices but if a bit of help was given then I bet there would be a lot more QVN's out there.

[/quote]

I agree with this post - thanks Kim ! I do have a child, and am desperately trying to get a position back in practice, whether part time or full time ! ill take anything!! there's lots of childcare options out there including holiday clubs, and family.. I just cant seem to get employers to understand that - Im not asking for some bizarre rota of no weekends , no school holidays etc.. I wouldnt expect that. The thing that I dont understand is, why does a proffession that still mostly consists of females, have such a poor ' family-friendly' reputation ? Very strange. Oh well - their loss, coz there's a lot of us out there who genuinely want to do the job and just need a mutually supportive work environment . Im sure that for every cover shift someone had to do for a parent, that parent would gladly return the favour twice. I would.

I hate the way that, as soon as you become a parent, especially a single parent, you are seen as a liability or unemployable - and then the government want all single parents back into work by the time their children are 6 ?? Yeah good luck with that Mr Cameron! you need to make employers change their attitudes before that is EVER gonna happen. I cant even get a 16hrs a week admin job at the moment. But I bet if i wasnt a single parent I could find a job quite easily - however .. what if i didnt have a child, but an elderly neighbour or relative or even loads of pets that i cared for but hadnt mentioned on the application form?? same difference i reckon - even more likely to have to down tools and rush home to them for whatever reason... somehow that is not discriminated against as much as having kids.

Oh but then I am 40 yrs old - obviously all washed up at this age!

Oh well.. id just like the veterinary profession to know that , actually, single parents are probably even MORE likely to STAY in the job and NOT LEAVE because we REALLY need the work!!! so if you want dedicated staff who are gonna stick with your practice, give us a chance. Basically having kids grounds you and keeps you in one place for at least 15 yrs while they are at school! It also makes you more determiined to earn money and be successful so you can support your children and be an example to them. We dont wanna be kicking around on income support. when we have valid qualifications and experience that could be being used!!

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Sal the 1st — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:51:18 GMT

no - I never got a reply when I asked

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Tracy Windler RVN — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:18:05 GMT

I don't know if its been answered or not yet, but I would still like to know where I can read this questionnaire! Any ideas, guys?

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Chrystalltips — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:17:33 GMT

What about us 'oldies' (over 25) who have already done the kiddie thing who now want a life long career!!

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Steph Phillips — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 08:02:47 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]I can understand that it would be a hassle for practices but if a bit of help was given then I bet there would be a lot more QVN's out there[/quote]

AMEN!!!

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Tracy Windler RVN — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 22:37:20 GMT

Everyone has very valid points to make on this topic. How tactful we are all being today hee hee! But,I do agree with both sides, although I don't have children (not through choice, I might add )

The person who filled out this survey could have worded it much better so as not to offend. As others have pointed out, there are many working mums who do their fair share, are available for weekends and on-call and stay late to help out. On the other hand, there are those who are out of the door 30 seconds after shift finishes, won't do weekends etc. The point being..YOU SHOULD NOT GENERALISE, you silly vet man (is it bad to assume its a man?!)!

As for saying that most nurses get married and pop out the kids as soon as they qualify. What a pile of pants! The majority of nurses I know worked at least 5 years after qualifying before having a family. Most of us are very dedicated people who put our jobs first and put relationships on the back-burner (there I am generalising now!)

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Kim Buckley — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 18:33:07 GMT

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Mac Feather — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:40:23 GMT

Also I think the attitude of practices to mums varies so much, you get places that really are family friendly then you get places that say they are family friendly but their actions say otherwise!

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Steph Phillips — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:37:17 GMT

I'm a mum, and I work about 30hrs a week.. and I agree with the above 3 comments!

I'm lucky as the practice manager does the rota around school hours for me, and on school holidays, she gives me time off if I need it due to no childcare - she has kids also and does the same for herself. I can whole heartedly appritiate the frustration it can cause to non mums because the other 2 nurses work O/T and I feel bad for that - even though they are both great and just get on with it!

Saying that "they (mums) are not useful" (in the title), IMO as a mum - feels like we're being discriminated against - there is a much politer way of putting it into words I'm sure!!

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Mac Feather — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:29:22 GMT

Reckon Ive heard similar comments from employers in other professions.

[quote user="icklesal"]I think its easy for non mums to get annoyed with mums and i think its easy for mums to forget what its like to be the one who has to cover shifts when others cant do them because of their kids.[/quote] Good point well put Icklesal.

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Sally Seddon — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:16:38 GMT

Could not agree more with the above 2 comments. While i dont want to offend anyone who is a nurse and has children it really annoys me that those without children are also given a rough deal sometimes but its never acknowleged. Its not just working mums who suffer, what about those that have to work later shifts or cover when others children are poorly. I will hopefully have children one day and the reason i am willing to do the later shifts or cover when people are off for their kids is because i might need someone to do the same in the future for me. Im the only nurse in our practice who is A. full time and B. not a mum, i get the least amount of time off over xmas (yes its my choice to work full time i know that) and i even offer to do the later shift on xmas eve so that the others can go home and be with their kids. I just hope the favour is returned when i pop a few out.

I think its easy for non mums to get annoyed with mums and i think its easy for mums to forget what its like to be the one who has to cover shifts when others cant do them because of their kids.

Oh god, i bet ive offended u all now. Its just my opinion and i dont meant to upset anyone

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Sparky — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:51:03 GMT

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]We didnt want to lose her but we couldnt run a practice around her children.[/quote]

I completely agree.....and I don't at all wish to offend anyone at all who is qualified and has children, we have two RVNs at work who had children and don't get me wrong we couldn't be without them-they are hard working members of staff whom we love...BUT as someone who does the rota-its very hard to work around them-having said that they will changes their days around if asked in advance, but it means the other memebers of staff (who don't have children or families to run) are more expected to work christmas and bank holidays, these other members of staff are expected to do spilt shifts and sometimes two lates in a week, its the other staff who stay longer on a really crappy days because another RVN has to get home to kids.....I'm really not getting at mothers, because one day I will probably be in the same situation, and I really do appreciate the work the mothers who are RVNs do-but I understand in part the quote-but I don't necessarly agree with it.

I'm really not being mean or nasty, and I'm really not getting at mums and thier children, because those with children at my work outnumber those that dont, I appreciate them really, just know it's difficult

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Sal the 1st — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:15:19 GMT

at risk of offending some people I can see partly where this attitude comes from. It is now going to take at least 3 years to train a nurse to qualification and some practices do invest quite heavily in the training in both finances and time. Practices that commit to training it is only reasonable that they should benefit from what they have put in.

I worked in a practice where there were 3 nurses - we were all qualified 2 of us quite recently qualified, all doing the same job with a few minor differences. We had 1 nurse go off on maternity leave and we employed a locum to cover. When she had finished her maternity leave she wanted to come back to work full time.

Now you work out how to fit her back in the rota on a full time basis when her requirements said - no weekends or public holidays, would need most of school holidays off, no on call, no split shifts, no starts before 10am and no finishes after 5pm. Much as she was a well liked member of the team there was no way we could accomodate those kinds of demands. We didnt want to lose her but we couldnt run a practice around her children.

maybe this is what the comment is getting at?

And I am not saying everybody is the same - just saying that this might be the kind of situation that has lead to this remark

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Sal the 1st — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 12:12:04 GMT

where do i find this questionaire

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

BengalcatRVN — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 01:21:15 GMT

WTF?! i'm a RVN, have been a few years, not married, not got kids (apart from fur-kids)

Am I a bit behind? Should I be up the duff? Bugger it! BOYFRIEND! *pokes the sleepy head* We gotta get a wiggle on! (so to speak)

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Kim Buckley — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:19:33 GMT

This just shows what a rubbish attitude some vets have towards VN's! Love to see them do their job without us!

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

salliee5 — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 13:00:20 GMT

TOO long? Oh come on, regardless of the implication that we won't be abe to work after having kids etc (what nonsense), how could it ever be too long to train someone to do a demanding, challenging and responsible job. Personally this is where I take offense. Is it too long to train human nurse, too long to train vets and/or doctors. Maybe I am wrong but I thought there had been enough fighting for vet nurse recognition to stop this kind of disrespect.

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Dippy — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 12:51:40 GMT

Perhaps if "employers" paid RVN's what they are worth compared with other jobs in the big wide world which pay more, don't require us to train for as long, know as much, have as much responsibility or work as hard etc, they would be more inclined to come back to work after having had their familes?! Think that one over!

Re: It takes too long to train veterinary nurses. By the time they are qualified they are married and are thinking about starting a family. They are not so useful then. (Employer)

Catherine Raymond — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 12:26:12 GMT

This mentality makes me so cross.

I am an RVN, am married and a mother of two. I work full time and care for my mum on the side. The other RVNs in my practice are married but don't have kids (even though they would make cool mums).

I work hard and pull my weight. I cover other members of staff when ill or on hols when I can. For crying out loud, last year after I had my FAMILY (including in laws and kids) Christmas Day dinner I was over in the sugery with the vet repairing a traumatic amputation after a cat played with a train.

How dare this person and the others who will be of the same opinion think this of us?? Thought that over the last 15 years in practice that this mentality would have been filtered out. If they opened their eyes they would see that working mums/dads and those married couples with no kids make up a huge number of the workforce.

It makes no difference - married or single - couple of kids or none - we all work hard and are in practice because we WANT to. A wise person once said to me that our job is a vocation as you have to be a certain type of person to work as a nurse.

I personally feel that the kids make me a more organised person, more patient even though a bit nuttier!!