Work experience

Re: Work experience

StephSVN — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:48:09 GMT

The laws regarding treatment of wildlife are irrelevant in the case of 'deciding what drugs to give' - I'm assuming most of the drugs would have been POM-V and as such should only be prescribed by a vet for an animal under his/her care, regardless of who owns or doesn't own it!

Re: Work experience

Nick Shackleton — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:12:52 GMT

In fact I think what you have both done is unacceptable and inappropriate!!!

Nicola there is no way if you came to do work experience at any of the practice I have worked in you would never be allowed to carry out this task! I am completely shocked that a practice have even put you into this situation. Anaesthetic monitoring is a highly complexed and skilled task to perform. Pre-empting problems and acting in the correct way can be a matter of life or death quite literally.

Takora surely you should of had veterinary advice ie a Veterinary surgeon actually prescribing drugs prior to giving them??? This is complete above you remit. Even as a qualified veterinary nurse we are unable to decided what drugs to give. We have to be told by a vet what drugs to give and what dosage.

I sorry if I come across angry, condescending etc... To be honest I am seriously MAD that things like this are going on. Is it a wonder why the general public have kinda lost their faith in the veterinary profession if things like this are going on!!!!!!

Re: Work experience

Vicky RVN — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 00:33:43 GMT

[quote user="Nicola Russell"]

A QVN was there for the induction but the vet then said she could go and I was left with the vet during the dental. Thet both seemed happy with the situation.

[/quote]

Blimey! We'd let a WE listen to hear, feel pulses etc like someone else has said, but would ALWAYS check it ourselves. I'm so shocked at the practice

Re: Work experience

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:46:29 GMT

[quote user="Takora"]

Like I said, if its really that bad, and im really incapable of doing my job, call an investigation :)

[/quote]

thats twice you have posted to call an investigation if you are not happy with what you are doing and indeed, what other members of staff are doing to the wildlife - why dont YOU call an investigation? You work there after all.

I dont think I like your tone and I feel you are wanting an argument? Please correct me if I am wrong

Re: Work experience

Kim Buckley — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:49:57 GMT

[quote user="Takora"]

[quote user="Kerry Haigh RVN A1 Cert SAN MBVNA"]

[quote user="Takora"]

Like I said, if its really that bad, and im really incapable of doing my job, call an investigation :)

[/quote]

??????????

[/quote]

I just mean that if the wildlife centres are going about it illegally, then surely something should be done about it? Can the RCVS do anything? Get panorama on it.

[/quote]

The RCVS would never do anything about it seeing as there are currently unqualified staff doing things that they legally shouldn't be doing in normal practices. It was the tone in which you said it .

Re: Work experience

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:52:03 GMT

[quote user="Kerry Haigh RVN A1 Cert SAN MBVNA"]

[quote user="Takora"]

Like I said, if its really that bad, and im really incapable of doing my job, call an investigation :)

[/quote]

??????????

[/quote]

I just mean that if the wildlife centres are going about it illegally, then surely something should be done about it? Can the RCVS do anything? Get panorama on it.

Re: Work experience

Kerry Spain — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:49:42 GMT

[quote user="Takora"]

Like I said, if its really that bad, and im really incapable of doing my job, call an investigation :)

[/quote]

??????????

Re: Work experience

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:37:57 GMT

We were trained on calculating doses, what antibiotics suit what species, etc. And I was there for a long time (and was given a job after a while), however, I was still allowed to do this from an early stage. I had previous experience in other animal care places as well, they wouldnt have given that sort of responsibility to a 16 year old from school. Saying that, there were alot of volunteers given this responsibility after a few hours when we were short staffed!

I agree, its not fair to place that sort of responsibility on the shoulders of some volunteers, but I worked my *** off and was happy to do it tbh.

Like I said, if its really that bad, and im really incapable of doing my job, call an investigation :)

Re: Work experience

Doolally — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:30:48 GMT

[quote user="Nicola Russell"]

A QVN was there for the induction but the vet then said she could go and I was left with the vet during the dental. Thet both seemed happy with the situation.

[/quote]

I'm sure the owner wouldn't have been happy with the situation!! I've literally just got off the phone to a client ensuring her that all our SVNs are properly supervised, as she was worried about what she had seen on the panorama programme and was changing to us(yes still getting the phonecalls!), can you imagine if she thought that people on work experience were monitoring anaesthetics on their own, let alone enrolled SVNs.

Not your fault, but completely irresponsible of the practice. If that was my pet i'd be livid

Re: Work experience

Maisy — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:41:12 GMT

At Animal Aid I know some of the volunteers will decide on and administer drugs, but these are the people that have been there years and in fairness probably have seen and know more on wildlife that most of us in practice.

Personally though I think this should be an area where unexperienced volunteers should, if asked to do this, decline because its not fair on them or the animal to have such responsibilities. I know the legislation is different for wildlife in that in effect anybody can treat them, but there should still be some responsibility shown by the person asking someone to do something, and those doing it.

Not having a go Takora, but I think that situation was unfair for you tbh.

Re: Work experience

Claire Cameron — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:32:59 GMT

[quote user="Takora"]And yes, I had to decide what meds, and how much to give. Mainly antibiotics and wormers.[/quote]

Based on what knowledge did you make you decisions?

Re: Work experience

Kim Buckley — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:23:35 GMT

[quote user="Takora"]

Im afraid to worry you, but yes, that is what happened. And Tiggys is an incredible place, they mainly only employ vet nurses dont they? The majority of wildlife rescues dont, and there was only 1 vet nurse working where I worked, so pretty impossible to have a VN working every night. Putting animals down was etremely routine for me, and Im sure I didnt need to be a vet as the law states anyone can kill an animal humanely, and everyone was!

And yes, I had to decide what meds, and how much to give. Mainly antibiotics and wormers. I know it still happens to this day, and also at a couple of other wildlife centres Ive visited, so feel free to get a legal investigation going if it is illegal!

[/quote]

How long were you there on work experience?? I know things are different with wildlife but still! How the hell are you supposed to know about antibiotics and things with no training!

I volunteered at tiggys and went there as part of my VN training and I had to show them that I knew how to calculate drug doses before I was allowed anywhere near an animal with an injection! They do use unqualified nurses but they are given training before being allowed to do any nursing.

Re: Work experience

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:52:10 GMT

Re: Work experience

BengalcatRVN — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:59:55 GMT

Takora "My short stint of voluntary work at a vets (about 3months) all I was allowed to do was watch and clean. Yet at a wildlife rescue I was giving IM drugs, taking bloods with the VN watching, having to decide what meds to give and how animals were to be treated, putting hundreds of animals down, monitoring pulse and reps during anaesthesia, tattooing badgers, microchipping and sorting out tracking devices, supervising the hospital during night shifts, hand rearing god knows how many baby animals as well as 10 kittens, all whilst doing the general husbandry of the other animals. Then I went to a zoo and was put in charge of an entire section, expected to get animals to breed as well as looking after them with barely any experience!"

I've just read putting animals down, as far as I'm concerned only a veterinary surgeon can do that, no? Hand rearing isn't an issue, general husbandry, and over 18's can deal with foxes/badgers etc (thats what Tiggy's told me when I did volentery work there) And volenteering at nights? Even st tiggs had nurses working.Having to decide what meds to give?!?! I mean, even I'm not allowed to "pick" the meds given to animals, even after nearly 10yrs nursing!!

I know they aren't "owned" pets. And you didn't say if you were a vet or nurse at the time so I assume not. Animal welfare is top of my list for any animal.

And same about the rabbit monitoring. If it was my cat, I'd be livid. If it wasn't my cat but my clinic, I'd be monitoring ,but allowing you to listen to the heart, count the resps, but always double checking. I'd also show you pulses and other things but never leave you unattended.

Re: Work experience

Maisy — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:26:20 GMT

Agree. I think that is very irresponsible of the practice tbh and if that was my rabbit there would be some choice words said to them!

Re: Work experience

FINNIGAN — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:38:14 GMT

ditto! im afraid, dont think that is right!!

Re: Work experience

Claire Cameron — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:10:03 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

[quote user="Nicola Russell"]

A QVN was there for the induction but the vet then said she could go and I was left with the vet during the dental. Thet both seemed happy with the situation.

[/quote]

I think that is totally ridiculous! I would not be happy at all if that was my animal!

[/quote]

Snap!!! Completely irresponsible

Re: Work experience

Kim Buckley — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:07:26 GMT

[quote user="Nicola Russell"]

A QVN was there for the induction but the vet then said she could go and I was left with the vet during the dental. Thet both seemed happy with the situation.

[/quote]

I think that is totally ridiculous! I would not be happy at all if that was my animal!

Re: Work experience

Nicola Russell — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:04:46 GMT

A QVN was there for the induction but the vet then said she could go and I was left with the vet during the dental. Thet both seemed happy with the situation.

Re: Work experience

Claire Cameron — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:45:25 GMT

[quote user="Nicola Russell"]On my first day I was shown to restrain animals and was even raising veins for blood tests and helping with fluids and even monitored a rabbit anaesthesia during dental.[/quote]

Were you monitoring the anaesthetic alone?

I personally think these tasks should be undertaken by experienced staff.

I rarely let work experience restrain patients immediately as I never know what knowledge and experience they have.

Re: Work experience

FINNIGAN — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 17:24:47 GMT

not saying by any means you are a teenager!! but just giving you a view as to how we go,

Re: Work experience

FINNIGAN — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 17:22:25 GMT

Any work experience that comes to us, is allowed to watch ops, sometimes holds very aimable animals, we run thru y and how we take/run samples explain most of the things we do, w/e do get to see the cleaning side of the job too, but by no means do we use them as cleaning slaves, if we see that they are interested then we do our utmost to advise and answer thier questions, we certainly wouldnt be letting them assist in any anaesthesia monitoring tho!! we also have them in for 1 day interview so that we can see if they are really interested in the job or are looking for a "cop out" from school.if we think they really are interested then they can attend for 2 weeks.

Re: Work experience

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 17:20:54 GMT

I do understand that Maisy, and I wasnt having a go at vet practices because of it, I was just pointing out the massive difference between a normal animal care job and a vet placement. Im happy that I got to do the stuff I did as well as the menial tasks, I feel its given me alot of experience in order to go into vet nursing, but in order to train as a vet nurse I also dont mind standing around watching and being talked down to, because thats what I want to do. Im just saying theres a difference and it can be a shock when youve been running around doing everything yourself, having worked hard for a degree and doing countless hours of work experience, to then being treated like youre 16 again :) But hey, its just part of the fun of trying to become a VN.

Re: Work experience

Nicola Russell — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 17:06:32 GMT

I guess I was comparing it to another vets I did W/E in. On my first day I was shown to restrain animals and was even raising veins for blood tests and helping with fluids and even monitored a rabbit anaesthesia during dental. During consultations the vet got me to examine the animal then asked what I saw and felt. During ops the vet was asking me questions on anatomy.

Re: Work experience

Maisy — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 16:46:07 GMT

The difference with being able to do not as much in practice as opposed to wildlife centres is that these animals are owned and if something went wrong when a non-trained volunteer takes a blood sample incorrectly and hits an artery instead of the vein (for eg, rare but can happen!), the practice gets in the sh*t ftrom the client and opens up all sorts of legal mishaps. Wildlife aren't owned other than by the rescue and because the laws are different means anyone really can treat them.

Practices are more keen to allow work experience students more opportunity if they show interest, are helpful and have been there a while to learn and agree with Sal that a week isn't long enough. Its going to be far more useful to you long term to learn the basics and unfortunately the menial tasks before progressing. It's not a bad thing but that's vet nursing for you!