reptiles

Re: reptiles

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:16:58 GMT

you guys

Re: reptiles

Saskia Quinn — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:29:49 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]

If he has any sense he is tucked up in bed far away from females in wine induced stupors

[/quote]

Hilarious Carolyn

Re: reptiles

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:20:36 GMT

If he has any sense he is tucked up in bed far away from females in wine induced stupors

Re: reptiles

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:16:59 GMT

Well in my /wine induced stupor, I think that vetnurse.co.uk should put itself on the map with a whole programme devoted to exotic welfare and the pet shop industry, that clearly is not looking out for that said welfare.

Ahh well we can but dream, ........unless Arlo has any contacts up his sleeve, in regards to prime time TV????

Personally I think it would be a winner................. Arlo? Arlo?? where for art though Arlo???

Re: reptiles

Caro Laithwaite VN — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:16:16 GMT

No probs l realise you not getting at me and yup that is a more positive way to think about it re 1 out of 9. I do try and use the well at least one person is listening.
l guess l am going through one of those "WTF is the use" stages at the moment with X marked on the wall to slam my head against.

Mind you you should have read the first post that got lost some place in cyber space if you think that one was depressing.

Re: reptiles

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:10:47 GMT

Caro - I know you do a lot for animal welfare so I'm not getting at you personally - just generally!

Re: reptiles

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:09:57 GMT

Wow. Now I'm depressed!

Actually, things are improving. Slowly. And small though my part is, I am proud of the fact that I am able to make a difference to a few animals out there. If everyone did the same, eventually we would get somewhere. But just deciding that fighting is pointless will achieve nothing. I help with FREE tortoise healthchecks for the BCG twice yearly, and although I do see the same faces year in year out (but my tortoise is warm enough cos it sits under the radiator all winter) there are a significant number who truly didn't know they were doing anything wrong - and endeavor to put things right. So it is worth persevering!

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]I spoke to someone the other day that said "their rabbit had the best life of any rabbit" I knew what they would say when l asked "How long does it spend outside". The reply from the well dressed scroats was "outside? Why would he go outside he is scared out there it is much better inside and he knows it"
I nearly cut my palms from gripping the table. I did try and explain but l was talking to a granite brained pair, nothing was going in unless it was with a pneumatic drill.[/quote]

I do know what you mean - and have been equally frustrated. However, always remember that the sheer fact that the 'scroat' is stood in front of you means they DO care. For every rabbit owner that brings their rabbit/specimen/dyring bunny in to see you, there will be 9 more that either leave it to die (vets too expensive) or even find it dead - being oblivious to its suffering at all. So don't be too hard on the plebs that do make it to the vets!

Re: reptiles

Caro Laithwaite VN — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:47:59 GMT

Gill's comment about bringing exotics up to the standard of dogs and cats would show a ray of hope that there is something to build up to. The problem is that the care of dogs and cats and the laws governing them is still some place down in the toilet, so what hope for exotics.

I have asked people that have said their animal was normal the day before what exactly normal meant. I have yet to hear a coherent answer.

The sad thing is that people assume they have a right to animals they do NOT however Animals DO have a right to responsible humans.

People get exotics for street cred. Even if you try to explain to them the cost of electricity, correct housing and abuse of the environment due to raping it for the pet market let alone the abuse and slow sad deaths of so many of the animals involved it go's straight over their heads. Some people do try and make an effort of seeing what is needed, very few succeed though. The majority don't give a damm "l am alright jack" A bit like breeders. A handful try to do things right the majority only want to take from the breed/animals,they never want to give to the breed/animals.

The law in this country is a joke they say they are a nation of animal lovers c**p they are keepers not lovers, it has become one of those self delusional sayings to justify cruelty.

I spoke to someone the other day that said "their rabbit had the best life of any rabbit" I knew what they would say when l asked "How long does it spend outside". The reply from the well dressed scroats was "outside? Why would he go outside he is scared out there it is much better inside and he knows it"
I nearly cut my palms from gripping the table. I did try and explain but l was talking to a granite brained pair, nothing was going in unless it was with a pneumatic drill.

There is no real hope either to improve the lot of any animals in law. When all the idiots from the lunatic asylum of Westminster down to councils and those in charge of places like schools, police, nhs and other grass roots are so keen to screw this country up into a sick parody of the perfect world. Animal care is not even on their radar. As an example of what l mean just listen to the news every day

Yes we can do what we can but when you spend ages trying to improve something for an animal then you go onto the animal forums and realise that all the work someone has done to try and improve the lot of an animal someplace has been destroyed by stupid wannabe humans with no knowledge. Even old folklore was based on sense the modern spew has nothing of knowledge in it.

Swimming against the tide is less depressing than the state of animal care.

Re: reptiles

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:36:27 GMT

Could be, but the main thing is to sell them appropriate equipment. But in my experience, reptiles don't get the same level of concern shown them by the powers that be as do dogs and cats. But, the problem isn't limited to reptiles. In my opinion, pet shops should no longer be able to sell 'rabbit prisons', masquerading as a hutch, or sell little wire cages to keep parrots in. But it happens......Britain has a long way to go to bring 'exotic' pet welfare up to the level of cats and dogs.

Re: reptiles

Julie — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:33:36 GMT

Gillian - this would be an excellent topic for the vet surgeons. Have there been any similar discussions on the vet surgeon site?

Re: reptiles

Helen Freer — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:30:02 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

-there are many very well qualified and experienced vets and nurses experienced in the care of exotics - but clients need to find them (or be sent to them by other vets) in order to achieve appropriate care and advice

[/quote]

I know living in cloud cookoo land but, could it be made a requirement that when selling an exotic pet, that a list of local vets that deal with exotics is also given to the owners.

Re: reptiles

S-J — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:25:21 GMT

Sardines !!!

Re: reptiles

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:24:11 GMT

sorry - waffled a bit (feel quite passionately about the subject - you might have guessed) but in answer to your original post:

-owners are generally ill-informed on the care of their own pet

-some, not all, pet shops are seriously compromising the welfare of the pets they sell by giving poor advice on equipment and conditions. This is oftn because they want to sell 'the glass tank and starter kit' that they keep in stock - rather than an appropriate set-up, individually tailored to each species.

Re: reptiles

Noodle — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:23:30 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] Why some vets feel the need to give animals 'baytril in the water' or multivit injns to a species they know very little about amazes me. In my personal opinion, doing so without warning the owner first of their lack of knowledge in the species is taking money from someone fraudulantly. I am being controversial tho....

[/quote]

I know very little about exotics, but agree with you 110% there!

I have before now given clients details of exotic referral places whilst they are waiting to the see the vet , if I know the vet in question is one of those that will 'have a go with it' when my gut feeling says referral would be in the animals interest...

Re: reptiles

loobylou — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:21:47 GMT

I know what you mean bout vets doing more harm than good! We tend to advise clients we can see the exotic for first aid but anything after that is read up in a book. We uaually advise them to ring our local exotics expert and go from there.

Re: reptiles

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:17:34 GMT

I certainly do see a lot of exotics, from both ends of the scale. We see the early cases belonging to responsible owners that we can treat effectively and feel we are doing a good job. Unfortunately those cases are in the minority. We see a LOT of very sick animals that are beyond repair. I had a green iguana brought in last year that was so emaciated it was skin on bones - literally. It hadn't the energy to move and was likely to have succumbed to multi organ failure days if not weeks before. I always ask the same first question - when was the last time you feel your pet was in full health and behaving normally? The answer? "It was fine yesterday". Enough said. I euthanased it immediately.

I had a 10 week old 20g bearded dragon brought in last week with a belly full of wood chips. 2 enterotomies later and it is doing well. The most frustrating thing? The owner had rung the pet shop after taking it home to report that the lizard was eating the wood chips they were given as substrate. The pet shop's answer was 'it's ok - they will be digested and not cause any problems'. WOOD?????

Owner's ignorance is frustrating. Poor and sometimes dangerous advice from the pet shop is unforgivable. I got in touch with the licensing dept of our council 2 years ago, when I was getting cheesed off, and suggested that they ensure that pet shops have a good and complete understanding of any animal they sell. The lady came from the council but basically said that unless I wanted to offer free training/advice/time etc then there was little she could do. But she would bring it up at the next committee meeting......

Incidentally, we also see cases that have been made worse by inappropriate vet treatment and advice. The cases are numerous but a good example was the owner who was told by another vet to offer their long-term anorexic tortoise sardines!!!!!! Hmmm.......a herbivore. That can't swim or fish. How the hell did they come to the conclusion that sardines would perk it up? Give it gout maybe...... I wouldn't dream of seeing a horse (been too long - have forgotton most of what I learned about them) and so would send it to an equine specialist. Why some vets feel the need to give animals 'baytril in the water' or multivit injns to a species they know very little about amazes me. In my personal opinion, doing so without warning the owner first of their lack of knowledge in the species is taking money from someone fraudulantly. I am being controversial tho....

Re: reptiles

S-J — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:46:27 GMT

yep we tend to send ours to her.

Re: reptiles

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:24:23 GMT

I think gillian the vet who comes on here deals in exotics does she not?

Re: reptiles

Fiona Leathers — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:47:01 GMT

Send a PM to Helen Heggie, she works in the best exotics practice in Scotland and is an excellent nurse, so should be able to help.

Re: reptiles

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:45:01 GMT

Emma, I imagine if you give some information on your profile, you are more likely to get some answers here.