Problems with Propoclear

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Sue Cox — Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:03:57 GMT

Our practice has just switched to Propoclear, and I've found I've had a couple of dodgy anaesthetics, since using it. I think people have said the animal is too light then too deep, and i did fine that with a dog the other day. Went light to the point of panting, then swung too deep to the point of a couple of minutes IPPV required, I was not amused as it was a happy, healthy routine castrate. Not noticed any pain on injection but have been getting the vets to draw it up moments before induction, instead of us preparing and labelling a syringe ready.

Hmm...

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Leanne Tyreman-Guest — Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:53:02 GMT

well!! that was quite painless!! for me anyway, no probs with todays ops!!

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Leanne Tyreman-Guest — Fri, 18 Jun 2010 09:46:04 GMT

I have been off work having had surgery two weeks ago, we used propoflo before I was off, and changed to propoclear whilst i was off, we had two ops yesterday which we had problems with, but both giddy dogs, so pre med wasnt as effective as you may like, both dogs went suddenly deep then lighter & were panting, thus, waking up throughout unless I performed IPPV to keep their lungs full of iso!!

Unsure if this was just a strange coincidence or due to the propoclear?! I have done a full circuit/anaesthetic machine check & all is fine on that score!!

We have an op today so we wait with baited breath...........

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:18:05 GMT

Been using it for quite a few months - haven't noticed any difference from the milky stuff. I prefer it - but then I remember good old thio and being able to see a flash of blood much more easily. It never did feel right to me to be putting cloudy stuff in a vein

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Katy — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:18:20 GMT

Sounds a bit dodgy doesn't it?!

I can confirm in human medicine there is no propoclear yet! We are still using plain old propofol!

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Vickipr — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:53:29 GMT

We changed to propoclear earlier this year, and have definately notcied a lot more pain reaction on induction, especially if it goes perivascually, also two cses where the drug has gone round the vein that the skin has turned a horrible shade of black in the area - was fine eventually, but was a bit scary at the time!

Also, I was interested to see an earlierpost when the re said that it shouldn't be drawn up in advance, as we do that all the time! Mainly beacuse in the data sheet it states that the bottle top shouldn't be breached more than a certain amount of times (I think it's 10 or 12?) so we draw all ours up in the morning through one needle to avoid peircing the top too many times!

I would rather change back to good old rapinovet!!

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Phrin Vernon RVN — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:23:24 GMT

I have been on ops this week, and so have used it a few times.

All our patients have had an IV cath placed so far ( to Nick), and haven't noticed any pain reactions, nor apnoea.

We have also made sure that it has only been drawn up immediatley before use, although that is taking some getting used to for some staff, as we previously used to draw up rapinovet for each patient, and label it, perhaps up to an hour before induction.

The only thing the vets have noted, is that the animals seem to be going down with much smaller volumes than rapinovet.

Both are 10mg/ml propofol, so presumably dose rates should be the same

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Emma Purnell — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 17:35:21 GMT

At the minute we have some vets using the Propoclear and some using the Propofol as a little control test.

I am wondering if, aside from the issues with the apnoea and pain, there is a significant change in depth of anaesthesia over a short time as we are having issues with animals coming suddenly light around 10 minutes into the anaesthetic....

All this worries me as it is meant to be exactly the same stuff!!

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Lolita — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:41:39 GMT

we got a free bottle of propoclear from our supplier to try and nearly everything had apnoea, needless to say we changed back to Propoflo!

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Steph Worsley — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:10:06 GMT

no we stopped fairly quickly. we went back to propoflo

Re: Problems with Propoclear

bongo — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:00:22 GMT

i have to admit I preferrred rapinovet, do u still use propoclear despite probs?

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Steph Worsley — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:28:17 GMT

we place IV casths in EVERYTHING even sedations! and we still had pain on injection (stuff drawn up max of 10 mins prior to use!!!)

Re: Problems with Propoclear

bongo — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:11:41 GMT

Vicky, we were told by the rep to not draw up too soon before inducing, if poss just do it before. Not sure why, think it gets a bit gloopy in the syringe and more difficult to inject.

If it feels a bet chilly then warm it in your hands for a bit, thats what I do. also find it better to inject through blue needles as opposed to orange even in cats because the pressure it is forced through an orange needle at seems to be more painful than using a blue needle for iv injection, however this is just for cat neuterings as we use i/v caths for everything else!!

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Emma Purnell — Tue, 08 Jun 2010 09:07:00 GMT

The main reactions we have had has been if it has gone sub-cut - occasionally catheters are not flushed properly, big issue for me! We are working on catheters for all, we are pretty close to managing it but have still had the odd dramatic reaction...

Thanks again for all the feedback - love you guys

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:09:12 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton DipAVN(Surgical)VN MBVNA"]

I'm sure if you are involved IV access will be standard

[/quote]

haha!

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Nick Shackleton — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:07:35 GMT

I'm sure if you are involved IV access will be standard

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Phrin Vernon RVN — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 21:35:47 GMT

Interesting thread. We are just about to swap over to propoclear from rapinovet - we have just over 20mls rapinovet left!

I'm on ops next week I think, so will be watching closely for any differences. Slightly concerned re the pain reaction, as we don't always place I/V's - very much depends on the vet & nurse.

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Steph Phillips — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:59:09 GMT

We use alfaxan and vetofol (vetofol similar to propofol) not had any problems with it..

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Vicky RVN — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:56:04 GMT

Ah will tell everyone about the cloudy thing...our stock room is cold in winter so will remember that. 95% of our ops have catheters in, so that will help with it being painful...but still don't want them to be painful if we can avoid it! Did someone on here say they found if it was drawn up and left it stung, but if drawn up and used straight away it was ok? Not sure if i'm imagining it or not

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:50:18 GMT

We havent had any problems with deaths fortunately but we do notice it does seem more painful on injection. Also if the propoclear becomes too cold it turns cloudy. In winter when we were having the really cold spell our bottles were always cloudy. We spoke to the drug company and we were advised NOT to use it whilst it was cloudy but warm it up first. So we put the bottle on a towel on the readiator. Do NOT place directly onto radiator. The drug company said other practices were having simliar problems.

Definately inform the drug company of your findings though

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Nicola Smith — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:30:10 GMT

Not had any problems, or noticed any pain on GA but all ours get catheters.

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Honeybadger — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:03:54 GMT

I have been using it in my new practice for the last 6 months (Propofol in my last practice) I have not noticed any difference, if anything maybe less induction apneoa (but the vets in my last practice generally used to give it really quickly). I dont like the fact that it is clear though, especially as people like to draw it up ready for the op (I know it SHOULD be labelled but most people dont!), much easier to get mixed up with something else.

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Emma Purnell — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 19:10:02 GMT

[quote user="emmastarlight84"]

Hi everyone, we have had to change back to propofol after using propoclear as we had problems with apnoea, our other practices seem to be ok with it though

[/quote]

Thank you, interesting to know it is not just us.

We have also had pain reactions, another reason we are not impressed...

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Emma Wiltshire RVN — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 19:04:48 GMT

Hi everyone, we have had to change back to propofol after using propoclear as we had problems with apnoea, our other practices seem to be ok with it though

Re: Problems with Propoclear

Steph Worsley — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 18:27:41 GMT

right just had a word with one of our ex anaesthesia interns, we stopped using it because of pain on injection, which in itself isnt a good thing really, we place iv catheters on all GA's but imagine trying to give off the needle and getting pain reactions!!!