Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Anonymous — Sun, 02 May 2010 16:02:12 GMT

Hi,

with regards to EMLA timing - we say minimum 15 -20mins but to be honest by the time i get back to doing them on a busy ops morning its normally 40 - 50mins!It does work really well and stops them leaping around when your trying to place their catheters!

cheers x

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Kerry Spain — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:52:01 GMT

[quote user="Romain Pizzi"]

I am glad that you brought this up, as this is always something controversial. As with many things, there isn't a "one number fits all" solution to sub-cutaneous fluid administration.

Firstly, while sub-cutaneous fluid administration is generaly regarded as poor practice in dogs and cats compared to IV fluids, it actually holds several advantages in rabbits. Experienced rabbit clinicians are aware that rabbits are relatively intolerant of rapid circulatory volume expansion, compared to dogs and cats, so aggresive IV fluid administration in dehydrated rabbits can easily result in sudden death - not that benificial! Also the relatively small volumes often result in line occlusion, and it is difficult to ensure even vaguely accurate fluid volume administration with the use of infusion pumps or syringe drivers.

I am a fan of other forms of fluid administration (including oral!) such as SC. While it is all too easy to just blindly quote a number for the maximum amount of fluid to adminsiter in one site, the reality is this depends on how tense and distended the overlying skin becomes during injection (keep checking this!). The needle can inadvertantly enter a fascial plan, and even 2mls will result in a hard tense bauble of fluid that will be painful to a rabbit, whereas some rabbits can easily take 100mls in one site with no resultant skin tension. It is of course sensible to split the volume into several sites if this is a large volume/small rabbit - 20-40mls in a site is perfectly reasonable. When administereing caustic drugs such as Baytril (enrofloxacin), it is actually useful to inject this into the resulting fluid pocket, as this dilutes the drug, causing less tissue irritation.

So, how much to give? Peri-operative fluid rates of 10mls/kg/hour of anaesthesia in healthy rabbits for elective procedures (neutering etc) are a good idea, just as it would be for IV fluids. For dehydrated rabbits, the volume depends on the percentage dehydration (rabbits are often more dehydrated than dogs/cats on presentation). 5% dehydration in a 2kg rabit=100mls, perfectly reasonable to administer SC, in 3-4 sites (dehydrated rabbits skin if often more adherent, and may only allow the administration of smaller amounts per site i.e. 20msl - remember, don't be lazy and blindly follow a number, assess your patient!).

Hope this helps! ; )

Romain

[/quote]

Awesome reply thank you, very informative indeed!

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Romain Pizzi — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:09:47 GMT

Quiet agree! If you can have IV access via a marginal ear vein catheter and an airway ET tube) for ll rabbit anaesthesia that would be ideal. As a compromise one should always try for at least one, lest you have a crashing rabbit with no IVor airway access (then very difficult to attain!). Many people like EMLA, while other are not convinced by how useful it is. If you don't have EMLA cream, good old Entubeaze used for entubating cats) spreyed on the region of skin after clipping works extremely well, and all practices have this already. It also appears to work much more rapidly than EMLA.

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Kylie Jones — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 22:42:02 GMT

Thank you for the replies, excellent information and advice. I really want to improve the bunny action in our practice and will be presenting this information at the next practice meeting. Many thanks

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Phrin Vernon RVN — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:56:37 GMT

[quote user="Heather_B"]

Hi,

I have found over the years that every practice has a different procedure for tackling bunnies. However, in the practice I now work at all bunnies have an IV placed before they go under anaesthetic or are hospitalised. (i now get very nervous if I see a bunny having a GA without one!) 9 times out of 10 into the marginal ear vein but otherwise we put them into the lateral saphenous in the back leg.

They are tolerated really well and we then have perfect access to give the drugs we need and we also give our bunnies pre and 4 hours post op fluids usually at 10ml/kg slow IV. We tend to feed them recovery as soon as their awake but do try and send them home if they are perky enough to get settled at home and hopefully get back to their routine and normal environment as soon as possible.

Our routine with our IV's is as soon as admitted we clip both ears and EMLA them (local anaesthetic cream) and then leave them for 15 - 20mins, then place the catheter(Yellow>24G / purple >even smaller!). They are surprisingly really easy to place once you get used to doing them and seems much kinder doing this than putting stingy, large volumes of fluids SC if they have to have multiple doses or are hospitalised. It is also much safer for your anaesthetics.

Hope this helps :o)

[/quote]

I want to work where you work!

Managed to get a couple of bunnies with an IV placed for routine spays, claiming portfolio needed bunny fluids ( I know they don't need ivft for portfolio ), but apart from that we give SC or IP fluids!

Have posted a question on the bunny thread about the best protocal. Love that you clip and apply EMLA on admission, although in humans it takes 30 mins to work - guessing that bunnies thin skin (esp on ears), means it works quicker for buns?

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:23:30 GMT

Hi,

Hope this helps :o)

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:08:24 GMT

Wow, Thankyou Romain, very informative

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Romain Pizzi — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:53:07 GMT

I am glad that you brought this up, as this is always something controversial. As with many things, there isn't a "one number fits all" solution to sub-cutaneous fluid administration.

Hope this helps! ; )

Romain

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Kerry Spain — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:58:48 GMT

This is reassuring to know that there are bunny people out there, I'm going to start a new job soon and the vet is really into rabbits so I may have to lean on you for info as I'm not very clued up on the little thumpers

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:31:58 GMT

20ml/post, and supreme recovery made with biolapis as soon as they are up, we keep them overnight to, so get regular syringe feeding, until they eat themselves. We use protexin in the bunnies with tummy upsets rather than just recovering from anaesthesia, unless they dont eat on their own by the morning, then they get that and metoclop.

It works well, we usually have 99% eating for the night shift nurse, so she is not up all hours feeding through the night.

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Mrs Dot Dot — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:23:12 GMT

We give 10mls /kg pre and 10mls /kg post op .... warmed saline.... we use vetergesic instead of torb... seems to be a quicker recovery time... and feed supreme rec overy asap... I like our ga regime for bunnies... definately the best I've seen and it seems to work well.

Also give metoclopromide and vetergesic pre.

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Nikki Morris — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 21:33:03 GMT

We give all bunnies 20mls sub cut fluids between 2 sites, Protexin, Recovery to go home. we also start on recovery asap post anaesthesia.

Re: Subcutaneous fluids for rabbits post operative

Catherine Raymond — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 21:09:43 GMT

We give 20mls s/c fluids in healthy rabbits peri operatively. Then they get given supreme recovery very shortly after when they are up an about.