Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Romain Pizzi — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:03:16 GMT

Dear Becky,

I am very fortuae in that we rarely seen mucoid enteropathy amongst our clientele the last few years in Scotland. That said, we have had a relatively poor success rate, so no magic solution I am afraid. We usually go for fluids and supportiv feeding oral metacam, and metocloperamide and zantac. I try avoid using antibiotics in most cases.Horrible problem, and I think we all wish we had a more effective treatment protocol!

Romain

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:00:13 GMT

Hello. Can I ask what treatment regime you use for mucoid enteropathy. I have seen success with s/c fluids. protexin, metoclopramide and metacam/or rimady. Prepulsid liquid/cisapride was used before it was withdrawn from the market. do you have any other recommendations for treating this. regards becky

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Saskia Quinn — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:03:26 GMT

Dear Romain,

Many thanks for taking the time to reply, and for a very nice reply too, and of course, your condolonces, it is much appreciated.

Thanks

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Phrin Vernon RVN — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:02:05 GMT

Hi Romain

Thankyou for your input on this thread - it is fascinating!

I would like to ask what your preferred anaesthetic protocal is for routine bunny ops, and do you give premeds, preoxygenate, metaclop, fluids etc as routine? Also what do you suggest regarding post op care. I like to syringe feed bunnies as soon as they are standing, usually with a probiotic like fibreplex, and get them eating before they go home. We also sometimes (in season!!) pick dandelion leaves etc for them to encourage them to eat post op... is this OK?

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Romain Pizzi — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 19:46:47 GMT

Dear Saskia,

I am very sorry for your loss. A ten year old rabbit is a fantastic achievement, and you clearly looked after her very well. I would love to be able to tell you the probable cause of death, but in any elderly animal there are so many possible causes that result non-specific signs, I would just be speculating wildly, and would just be dishonest.

Don't blame yourself, retrospect is always distorting, and sadly we as vets and nurses, who fight so hard for our patients can forget that all our animals (and ourselves) do have a finite lifespan.

Again my condolensces,

Romain

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 27 Apr 2010 23:49:38 GMT

Hi Romain,

Firstly, welcome to our forum - its great to have an expert on board!

I have a question, I hope you dont think it is a pressurising or unfair one, but seeing as you are available, I just wanted to ask;

My little house rabbit died very suddenly a few weeks ago - the Thursday night I noticed she was more quiet than normal, sitting in the one place for most of the evening. Before bedtime, I picked her up and gave her a cuddle then put her over to her bed. I was slightly concerned at this point as she was so quiet and non lively, however, the fact that she ate half a pear then, kind of consoled me. But she was dead the next morning.

She was a rescue and approx 10 years old, female neutered. Admittedly, she wasnt regularly immunised against myxo or vhd. However, when I picked her up that morning, her abdomen felt very fluidy but I couldnt feel a palpable mass.

Probably just clutching at straws here asking you! I would love to know what may have happened, but didnt want to put her through a pm in case it was inconclusive.

Many thanks in advance.

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Hannah Lowe — Tue, 27 Apr 2010 21:11:53 GMT

Thanks Romain thats brilliant,

Lots of helpful information there for me to pass on.

Hannah

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Romain Pizzi — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 22:15:09 GMT

Hi Hannah,

I know there is a very wide variety of advice given to rabbit owners by different vets and nurses, in contrast to dog and cat vaccinations where the professions have more of a consensus.

I would strongly advice vaccinating all rabbits, even house rabbits, for both myxomatosis and VHD. I also advise in areas such as Scotland (where I live) where there are lotsof wild rabbits, or lots of myxomatosis to vaccinate for myxo every 6 months, even in house rabbits.

So why do I recomend this?

Both diseases, are severe, almost always fatal, and incurable - so vaccination is the only "treatment".

Firstly VHD - many vets don't recomend VHD as they never see clinical cases. I see at least 10-20 confirmed cases in my rabbit owners every year, and the more I look, the more cases I find. Unlike the textbook cases, most rabbits are found dead, and most never have any hint of haemorrhage (unlike the diseases name), even on gross post-mortem examination. You really fo have to perform liver histopathology to confirm the disease. We mainly diagnose the disease when owners with large numbers of rabbits start to loose them in close succesion, or breeders have lots of deaths. Most owners just think their rabbits died of a heart attack etc. When I speak to rabbit owners, or check rabbits there are a large number of rabbits out there that die suddenly, that we don't even hear about that could well be VHD. The virus seems to have a 2 year cycle in the wild (only young rabbits survive, and the following year form the bulk of the resistant population. The following year their susceptible offspring are the bulk of the population, and a new outbreak occurs). The virus is also very resistant in the environment, and can be carried into the house on peoples shoes and clothing, or by birds into the garden, and so house rabbits are not safe.

As far as myxomatosis goes, while the virus does not survive outside biting insects (rabbit fleas), cats scavenging off a dead rabbits can tranport fleas into a garden (cats go everywhere) and people then inadvertantly pick these up and carry these inside to their indoors rabbits. I also see numerous cases every year of rabbits that are only vaccinated yearly, or who's vaccines are out of date get the milder forms of myxomatosis (numerous nodules on the skin of the face and body, that then for dry crusts an later open into wounds). Many of the milder cases do OK with treatment although they can take ages to heal, but the worst cases sadly get euthanased. I have seen this in house rabbits. I have even seen this in rabbits vaccinated every 6 months, where vets do not bother to give the small portion of the vaccination intradermal, as recomended by the manufacturer (to elicit a stronger immune response).

I know it always feels as if we are constanty trying to "sell" vaccination and treatments to our clients - hence I think we need to be honest and push the important stuff (vaccinations), and not the unproven stuff (such as regular 3 monthly worming of adult rabbits). I often suggest clients visit the RWA website, or phone for advice (so they see I am giving the same advice), and the RWA,also trying to keep informed of where in the UK VHD/myxomatosis is occuring and so can tell owners.

Anyway, hope this helps!

Romain Pizzi BVSc MSc DZooMed FRES MACVSc(surg) MRCVS, RCVS recognised Specialist

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Hannah Lowe — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 21:01:17 GMT

Hi there,

I have a question regarding vaccinations. We have been given conflicting advise in the past regarding house rabbits and vaccinating against Mxyomatosis and VHD. Would you reccomend both vaccines to rabbits which are confined to indoors only?

Thanks

Hannah

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:21:09 GMT

Oh I like this wee forum.. Arlo can we get more ask the experst on a whole range of things pleeeeeese

Anyway I have no rabbit question but will say I have had 2 rabbits both living to a ripe old age..(10 an 11 respectively, and they never needed any dental treatments or had any digestive upsets in their entire life.

I fed them a varied diet of greens, carrots, hay, supa rabbit, dandelions and their leaves, dock leaves and real grass. and plent of it!

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Carys Thorp — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:11:02 GMT

Thank you, thats exactly what i wanted to know

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Romain Pizzi — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 08:25:51 GMT

Oops, just notd above that the above sentance should read: " Passalurus is very uncommon as a a cause of clinical disease in adult pet rabbits".

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Romain Pizzi — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 08:23:13 GMT

While there are a number of nematodes that can affect wild rabbits, these are really rare in pet Rabbits, and the only nematode one tends to occasionally see is Passalurus ambiguus. This is an oxyurid found in the caecum and large intestine. They do not tend to be pathogenic in adult rabbits, although heavy infections can contribute to enteitis in young rabbits at weaning. The worms measure 5-10mm in length. These can be treated with Fenbendazole (panacur). It is debatable if rabbits need the same level of routine worming as dogs and cats, and while rabbit Panacur is marketed for E. cuniculi, and is useful in treating E. cuniculi, it is still uncertain whether giving it every 3 months does indeed have a prophylaxtic effect for E. cuniculi.

Rabbits can be affected occasionally by several tapeworm cysts, particularly if grazing on grass contaminated by infected dogs or foxes. These are again seen only occasionally clinically, but can cause cysts in the mesentery, or sub-cutaneous tissues. They of course are not treated by administering Fenbendazole.

Hopefully this advice is useful in you formulating your own opinion as to worming rabbits. I don't tend to routinely worm rabbits, unless there is a specific indication.

Hope this helps!

Romain Pizzi BVSc MSc DZooMed FRES MACVSc(surg) MRCVS

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

carrie ball — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:58:23 GMT

hi, we always reccomend Oxbow western timothy hay, as its lovely and green and still has grass heads on it seems a good grass alternative than say meadow hay which can look a bit yellow and sun bleached. I hope this helps, burgess also do a lite version of their food, maybe this might help. I am not a RVN so just offering some advice from a receptionists point, hope this helps, if not i shall keep to myself lol.

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Carys Thorp — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:53:10 GMT

Ive heard conflicting advice on worming rabbits, is it necessary and how often should rabbits be wormed? Is once a year enough?

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Romain Pizzi — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 18:17:49 GMT

Dear Laura,

Not an easy answer I am afraid. Many of the differential diagnoses for an elderly rabbit loosing weight are similar to those in cats and dogs, and renal disease is always a strong suspect. Urine analysis, and possible blood urea and creatinine can give you a good indication if this is a factor. Unfortunately elderly rabbits with little remaining dentition can sometimes really battle to cope, and rabbits really do hide signs of any pain or discomfort, they are such tough little survivors. If you have ruled out real disease, it may be worth trying a course of palliative meloxicam (I would suggest a lower dosage of 0.3mg/kg twice daily, rather than the 0.6mg/kg twice daily dose we recomend for young healthy rabbits) - if your rabbit improves then you know she hasn't been coping, and you can monitor her quality of life while continuing meloxicam. The increased borborygmi (gurgling stomach and intestinal noises) and mucous on her faeces may be seen in rabbits that are battling to eat sufficient food or are selectively feeding.

The rabbit nematode Passalurus is actually very uncommmon in pet rabbits, and even when found is usually insignificant, so treating her with Panacur (fenbendazole) is unlikely to result in any dramatic improvement.

Good luck with this, and I do hope this helps.

Kind regars

Romain Pizzi BVSc MSc DZooMed FRES MACVSc(surg) MRCVS, RCVS recognised specialist

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Romain Pizzi — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 18:06:00 GMT

Dear Erin,

These can aways be dificult cases, there are so many possible causes, even psychogenic causes.

Probably the most useful next diagnostic test to perform (nice and simple and inexpensive), would be to perfrom a urine analysis, with SG, a simple dipstick, and a sediment examination. This could demostrate a host of things, including renal disease that is not always apparent on blood tests. I would advise not using a sediment stain in rabbits. You are mainly looking for tubular casts on the sediment, and in the rabbits alkaline urine, protein casts rapidly break apart. Sediment stains also seem to hasten other casts breaking up in rabbit urine, hence I prefer not to use them.

If the bladder was radio-opaque in this case, it would be much simpler, as it it could be a typical case of what owners sometimes call "sludgy bladder" or "bladder sand". Rabbits are really unique physiologically in comparison to dogs and ats in that they pretty much absorb all the calcium they consume in their diet, and the excess is then excreted in the urine. For a whole host of reasons, rabbits sometimes don't completely empty their bladder when they urinate (eg chronic back pain, osteoarthritis, and of course obesity). So calcium starts to precipitate out of the urine in the bladder forming very fine calcium oxolate or calcium carbonate uroliths or "sand". The condition becomes a viscious cycle, as the rabbit is urinaing, it starts to pass this sludgy material that is painful, and so stops, and so continues not to empty its bladder fully, and more calcium preciptates out etc, until the bladder is literaly full of thei "sand" and then the urine scalding and often incontinence one sees is actually overflow from the bladder. These cases usually need analgesia with metacam, as well as catheterisation and flushing of the bladder under anaesthesia, and keeping rabbits on meadow hay rather than lucerne/alfaalfa (which is high in calcium) also can help. To further complicate matters, we sometimes see rabbits that have these "sand-filled" bladders, and they have no clinical signs at all!

Unfortunatey in your case, as the baldder is radiolucent, this dosn't seem to be the cause. Other differentials to check carefully in the radiographs are kidney stones (common in rabbits - these can be very small, but associated with chronic pain, or even pyelonephritis which is dificult to diagnose, and can result in dysurea), and of course any spinal abnormalities or hip and stifle osteoarthritis. Pain can result in an altered posture, and hence change the bladders anatomic position and result in urine scalding.

Diet changes are also a mini-mine field, and so many owners find them difficult to perform. Remember that sudden or dramatic changes can result in dysbiosis (unbalanced gut flora), and changes in the caecotrophs and droppings, so gradual changes are always recomended. I commonly recomend weight loss in obese rabbits by reducing the concentrate portion of the diet (whether muslei or pellets), by just 1 tablespoon a week, until a rabbit of this size is on no more than 1-2 tablespoons a day. They gradually start to eat hay but as this is gradual there isn't the risk of an anorexic rabbit, or development of hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver) through rapid weight loss, although, of course this does take quiet some time to have its desired effect.

As a last point, although hay is so good for rabbits, some rabbits have molar root pain from the nerves at the root of the tooth being impacted against the cortex of the mandible, that they really can't chew hay because it is painful. In these cases, we often put rabbits on long courses of metacam to help alleviate this and try to encourage them to starting wearing their teeth. Unfortunately this is not always succesful.

Good luck with this difficult (and I guess frustrating case!) - I only wish I could give you a 10 word easy answer!

Hope this helps,

Kind regards,

Romain Pizzi BVSc MSc DZooMed FRES MACVS(surg) MRCVS, RCVS recognised Specialist

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Laura Stott — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:56:25 GMT

Hi,

I actually have a question about my own rabbit, just wondering if you could give me advice. My rabbit is a 9 year old female neutered mini lop. She's very skinny (weighs 1.49kg) and has had a lifetime of dental problems. Had her incisors removed when she was 3/4yrs old and barely has anything left at the back.

For the last couple months i have noticed qiuite a lot of faeces covered in a jelly like mucus in her cage. Her stomach makes constant gurgling noises and her abdomen looks distended. She is still eating and drinking, although i would say maybe not as eagerly as she used to, instead of flying at her bowl she'll steadily eat it during night and through day. I have taken her to work where the vet felt her abdomen and couldnt feel any masses, just felt fluidy. Also u/s scanned her where could just see lots of gas and a small amount of fluid but nothing significant. They have suggested i worm her as she has never been wormed to see if that helps.

Any other suggestions?

thanks, Laura

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Kim Buckley — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 08:15:55 GMT

Have they got a big run they could put him in or an enclosed garden? My rabbit when I was a kid lived out in the garden all the time and hardly had any pellets as would stuff herself on grass. Obviously will need close observation with regards to flies if he has diarrhoea but maybe the increased exercise would do him some good?

Re: Introduction to Rabbit Awareness Week Expert forum

Erin Gibson — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:28:12 GMT

Hi, my clinic has just ran a rabbit awareness month. One of the clinics has brought up quite an interesting case.

I have a 4yr old lop, who is 4.8kg and from previous bad diet advice given to the owner he will not eat hay. He is approx 1.5kg overweight.

He came in on the 8th Apr saturated in urine, which the owner reports has been a problem for over a year. The owner currently bathes him every other day to prevent scalding.

Diet at the point was mostly fruit, small amount of excel pellets and root veg. Faeces and teeth (incisors and molars) normal.

My vet was concerned abdo was fluid filled and not just overweight so abdo rads taken. Radioluscent material seen in bladder on x-ray (No stones). Pre-op bloods showed raised ALKP.

Diet change advised: Offer lots of grass hay, shred carrot through it, stuff toilet rolls, tissue boxes etc.. with hay and hide a few raisins in the middle. Still offer excel pellets and veg but add in dark leafy greens.

'Charlie' came back a week later having lost more than 0.5kg. Still not eating hay. O had stopped root veg, he was going off his pellets but was eating the dark greens. He now is not sitting in urine but has developed a touch of diarrhoea.

We advised to add back in root veg, continue with pellets (increased amount) and greens, still offer hay. We also dispensed fibreplex. 48hrs later d++ improving but not resolved.

Would you agree with treatment so far? Can you offer any advice re diet. Tips for introducing hay effectively?

Considering offering alfalfa hay and then trying to ween him onto grass hay or have also read about spraying hay with fruit juice, letting it dry out and then offering it as will taste sweeter?

He is currently still very bright and happy. Producing a few solid pellets but small in size and reduced in volume. Not drinking as much since stopping fruit and adding in greens?

Any advice, greatly received.

Erin.