Mini Lack

Re: Mini Lack

Fiona Leathers — Sat, 01 May 2010 13:01:04 GMT

For our mini lack we use

200ml/kg plus 1L/min - I think this is the recommened flow rate but not sure of CF

Re: Mini Lack

emvn80 — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:32:04 GMT

p.s the mini lack functions exactly the same as a normal lack so circuit factors of 0.8-1.0 can be used, although without a capnograph I might not be brave enough to use less than 1.0 x.

Also I just wanted to point out that with a rebreathing system such as the circle a capnograph won't show rebreathing if your fresh gas is too low, because the soda lime will still remove the co2. The best indicator is checking the rebreathing bag is not emptying (this relies on leak tesing the circuit before use!) and the use of a pulse oximeter.

Re: Mini Lack

emvn80 — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:28:14 GMT

i think 1 L/min for a circle without a capnograph is sensible and still pretty economical. When you say the bag empties if you use lower, do you leak test your circuits evey day? There could be a leak? The scavenging (unless it's a bit too aggressive!) shouldn't really empty the bag. Also are you using the correct size rebreathing bag? could it be too big? I change it to a 1L or even 0.5 L for smaller animals (should be 3-5 x the tidal volume)

Re: Mini Lack

Saskia Quinn — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:11:23 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

[quote user="Nick 'Batfink' Shackleton"]

[quote user="Vicky SVN"]

I do tend to keep mine higher than the boss would maybe like...rather be safe than sorry with no capnograph!

[/quote]

yup totally agree! You can tell your boss a Diploma nurse told you that! WEll he'd only blame you if the dog re-breathed!

[/quote]

Haha! Nick at our place we never considered post op feeding - till there was a thread on here, and you said feed them as soon as standing...

So I started doing that - vet questioned me... 'Well' I said, 'This is coming from a very experienced VN'

Vet was having none of it!

So I casually mentioned.. 'Said VN worked at NWS for X amount of years, and the post op feeding is what they did'

Vet- "NWS? Where we refer? Oh well...ummm... well if they do it maybe we should too!'

[/quote]

haha well done Vicky!!

Re: Mini Lack

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:11:09 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

[quote user="Nick 'Batfink' Shackleton"]

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

Mini Lack Prac link - No circuit factors are given so I guess you have to know and use them! Maybe waffling on to the examiner about the mini lacks' lack (pun intended) of a recognised circuit factor would give you some leeway, as long as the calcs were correct?

[/quote]

http://www.burtonsonline.net/main.asp?sitepages=BreathingSystems

[/quote]

Great link! Gives a good indication of weight vs circuit choice! And tells us the mini lack has a CF of 1.0

Personally like to work out flow rate for each patient when I get the chance! And I get twitchy with less than 2l/m flow rate - the boss always turns it down coz we have an ADE, but like Vicky says, the bag goes flat! Or worse the SpO2 goes <95%!

Personally with circles do 4l/m then 2l/m after 5 mins

[/quote]

Personally you should leave it up at initial flow rate a bit longer than 5mins. I would suggest around 15 - 20 mins

Re: Mini Lack

Phrin Vernon RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:10:12 GMT

[quote user="Nick 'Batfink' Shackleton"]

[quote user="Vicky SVN"]

I do tend to keep mine higher than the boss would maybe like...rather be safe than sorry with no capnograph!

[/quote]

yup totally agree! You can tell your boss a Diploma nurse told you that! WEll he'd only blame you if the dog re-breathed!

[/quote]

Haha! Nick at our place we never considered post op feeding - till there was a thread on here, and you said feed them as soon as standing...

So I started doing that - vet questioned me... 'Well' I said, 'This is coming from a very experienced VN'

Vet was having none of it!

So I casually mentioned.. 'Said VN worked at NWS for X amount of years, and the post op feeding is what they did'

Vet- "NWS? Where we refer? Oh well...ummm... well if they do it maybe we should too!'

Re: Mini Lack

Phrin Vernon RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:02:55 GMT

[quote user="Nick 'Batfink' Shackleton"]

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

[/quote]

http://www.burtonsonline.net/main.asp?sitepages=BreathingSystems

[/quote]

Great link! Gives a good indication of weight vs circuit choice! And tells us the mini lack has a CF of 1.0

Personally with circles do 4l/m then 2l/m after 5 mins

Re: Mini Lack

Vicky RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:56:52 GMT

Yay, Nick is a Dippy nurse

Re: Mini Lack

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:52:46 GMT

[quote user="Vicky SVN"]

I do tend to keep mine higher than the boss would maybe like...rather be safe than sorry with no capnograph!

[/quote]

yup totally agree! You can tell your boss a Diploma nurse told you that! WEll he'd only blame you if the dog re-breathed!

Re: Mini Lack

Vicky RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:51:53 GMT

I do tend to keep mine higher than the boss would maybe like...rather be safe than sorry with no capnograph!

Re: Mini Lack

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:48:01 GMT

[quote user="Vicky SVN"]

Thanks for that link Nick. The main circuits we use are mini lack (over 10kg) and cyclo-flo circle (over 10kg). I never put things on the circle below 1...yet that table is saying to put things under 20kg on 0.5 I've often found i need to keep them higher than 1 because the scavenging makes the bag too flat otherwise.

[/quote]

I have used such low flow rates, but I've always had capnograph on hand! Prob the lowest I use in 1litre/min. Those circuit factors stated are slightly low than I was taught.

Re: Mini Lack

Vicky RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:40:17 GMT

Re: Mini Lack

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:33:07 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

[/quote]

http://www.burtonsonline.net/main.asp?sitepages=BreathingSystems

Re: Mini Lack

Vicky RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:16:09 GMT

Yeah i'll do the same...god wouldn't it be awful to get there and have a task you didn't know about

Re: Mini Lack

Phrin Vernon RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:13:17 GMT

[quote user="Vicky SVN"]

Ah thanks for that...will bring that up at college, hadn't looked at the prac tasks since they were updated. Glad this thread was started now!

[/quote]

The way the RCVS are changing the pracs, I will be checking them daily in the last couple of weeks before my exam! Sly they are! LOL

Re: Mini Lack

Vicky RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:47:45 GMT

Ah thanks for that...will bring that up at college, hadn't looked at the prac tasks since they were updated. Glad this thread was started now!

Re: Mini Lack

Phrin Vernon RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:45:02 GMT

Re: Mini Lack

chanel clydesdale — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:21:31 GMT

When i did my exam back at christmas we were told we would be trsted on the circuit factor but we were told to do the full range from 1-2 i.e 1, 1.5, 2 therefore you have covered them all. x

Re: Mini Lack

Vicky RVN — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:07:34 GMT

We were told by college would not be tested on calcs for mini lack because doesn't yet have a fixed circuit factor?

Re: Mini Lack

dinkyd — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:24:13 GMT

Hi Bizzy

I was always taught to calculate for the range for the exam - dont know if this still stands though but I would calculate for both bottom and top end so multiply your minute volume by 1 first and then 1.5 so then you have the top and bottom flow rates(hope that makes sense it prob doesnt lol)!

Re: Mini Lack

Nick Shackleton — Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:51:26 GMT

mid range would be your best bet! but then again I'm not examining you

Prob what is best to work both using the upper and lower end of the range and then quote

'i would use a flow rate between X and Y"

Re: Mini Lack

Honeybadger — Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:35 GMT

Thanks Any idea which circuit factor I should use for my practical calculations? There are ranges for everything! I'm hoping that as long as the calculation is correct with correct units they wont mind which end of the range you use.

Re: Mini Lack

Nick Shackleton — Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:44:10 GMT

Same as a standard size lack so I would say 1.0-2.0 (some say 1.0-1.5)