cat castrates

Re: cat castrates

Shane — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:15:39 GMT

I attended a veterinary school, my total period of education was 4 years. (Comprising of theoretic as well as practical.) My employer was the state. I did bitch spays supervised by the vet and then had to perform one on my own one day when a dog had developed pyometra and the nearest veterinarian was approximately 6 hours away, so was authorised to do it.

As to my comment about new grad vets, a few in England have said to me they only operated the first time UNASSISTED upon graduation.

Anyway, this topic has gone totally of course.

Re: cat castrates

Angiy Michael — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:20:01 GMT

We are still allowed to do minor surgery that does not involve entry into a body cavity & I think those who wish to do further training and get involved in nurse surgery need to remeber there are still things they CAN do ...for now anyway

Re: cat castrates

Saskia Quinn — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:02:17 GMT

[quote user="Shane"]

Ok, I didn't want to comment about this when it first came up, but I thought I suppose I better now.

1stly: I'm not a nurse. We were trained in my country in the military to treat animals in a war/border/operational scenario, and if that meant having to do an operation, then we were taught how to do that. We were taught in the same class as the vet, and we were a darn sight better than a lot of new grads in this country who have never operated in their life until they have qualified. I dont know any vets around here who have put an IV in while being shot at.

We were taught to diagnose, treat and prescribe medication for the animals that were under our care.

And then please dont think I think of myself as a vet, or a mini-vet or a super-nurse, etc. I'm not. I'm just a regular guy who was very fortunate enough to get such a wonderful opportunity and ducation.

Sorry if my comment caused any concern.

[/quote]

Shane, quite frankly, yes, your comment caused me great concern and distress also at what went/goes on where you used to live. Incidentally, who taught you (vet?) and how long were you taught for? Personally, I am not having a go at you more so, the people you worked for. Out of curiousity, what was your job title then? You say you were 'taught to diagnose, treat and prescribe medication' for animals under your care, I can sort of comprehend that, but...... when does a bitch spay fall into that category?

As for your comment regarding new grads in this country who have never operated in their life until they were qualified - that is NOT the case! Any student vet seeing practice in 4th and 5th year are occassionally able to either assist the vet with surgery or do the surgery themselves with the vet scrubbed in also. I beleive also, in vet school, surgical procedures are carried out by student vets, under veterinary direction and supervision of course.

Again, not having a go at you personally, but I felt very strongly about your post and had to reply.

Re: cat castrates

Shane — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:36:11 GMT

Ok, I didn't want to comment about this when it first came up, but I thought I suppose I better now.

We were taught to diagnose, treat and prescribe medication for the animals that were under our care.

Sorry if my comment caused any concern.

Re: cat castrates

Christine Chapman — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:25:10 GMT

Me too Saskia hahaha -

Re: cat castrates

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:14:39 GMT

Well, if thats not illegal, I'll eat my computer

Re: cat castrates

Christine Chapman — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:47:21 GMT

With you 100% on this Shane. I would have thought this would have been highly illegal! It's a bit like a nurse doing a hysterectomy on a human patient!!!!

Re: cat castrates

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:31:05 GMT

[quote user="Shane"]

*cough* used to do cat + dog castrates plus bitch spays in my country before coming here....

[/quote]

When I first read this post, I had to re-read it to make sure I had read it properly first time around Quite frankly I am appalled (for want of a better word) that a Veterinary Surgeon would even consider a nurse doing a bitch spay. That is totally outrageous. A dog castration is bad enough, but a bitch spay? OMG I am totally lost for words, truely gobsmacked. A Veterinary Surgeon has that title for a reason - to perform surgery (amongst other things) A Veterinary Nurse also has that title - to provide NURSING duties. Certainly not bitch spays in which so many things can go wrong. I have worked with vets who cried when they had a 'bleeder' and requested assistance from another vet immediately. I have also worked with many years qualified Small animal vets who are never content with their surgery until the dog is up, walking, eating and good colour post surgery.

Re: cat castrates

Christine Chapman — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:18:56 GMT

Yes Helen and Saskia, I agree wholeheartedly!!

Re: cat castrates

Helen Brewster — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:59:31 GMT

I agree totally - I find surgery a bit tedious to be honest! Love medical nursing a lot more - proper nursey things - bloods, IV catheters, xray, scans, inpatient care etc etc.

If I has wanted to do surgery, I would have been a vet! I think nurses should concentrate on expanding our roles are nurses - doing things vets can't - not trying to take over from vets - there lies the danger of mini-vets!

Re: cat castrates

Saskia Quinn — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:18:01 GMT

I have no love of surgery whatsoever. The only thing I will do is 'scrub in' if the vet needs assistance. I love the medical aspect of nursing, radiography, medicating, fluid therapy, bandaging, nurses clinics, anaesthesia and so on, after all, thats what we were taught to do! Incidentally, vets I have worked with were not taught any bandaging techniques at vet school!

Re: cat castrates

Christine Chapman — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:56:52 GMT

My vet does all the surgery as he should!! I did help out a locum vet once and actually inserted a bone pin as he was having trouble with cramp. I xrayed the pup to check it was in place and he managed to stitch it all up!!

Re: cat castrates

Noodle — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:00:48 GMT

wow! sal that's shocking!

vets can go to such extremes! from the vets who think nurses are only good for cleaning, to those who expect them to do a mammary strip!!?

Re: cat castrates

nicky shoult — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:52:18 GMT

Never done cat castrates but have done (years ago i must say) tooth extractions- but this was a practice were the vet used to just snap the crowns off and leave the roots!!

The nurses at this practice still do all of the dentals, cat castrates and other bits of surgery as well!!

Re: cat castrates

Sal the 1st — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:44:26 GMT

used to do a lot of stitch ups and lump removals, havnt done any lump removals in over 2 years and only a couple of stitch ups - this is by choice I prefer the medical side of things. Did a locum a few years back and was asked if I was happy with small lumps - The dog that arrived on the table in front of me yes it had lumps , they were called mammary tumours! I wasnt happy to remove something where I had no idea what these tumours were,or what sort of margins to take - they looked pretty nasty and were all ulcerated. apart from the fact the largest was approx 2'' in diameter - and on a yorkie that is pretty large. His advice 'well if you dont think you have taken enough do a strip. You know what a strip is I presume?' I told him I knew what a strip was but I didnt know how he defined minor surgery but in my book this wasnt. I didnt even last to the end of the day with this practice!! and I was the only nurse there. Had this surgery gone ahead the receptionist would have been watching my anaesthetic

Re: cat castrates

Noodle — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:23:59 GMT

i went for an interview recently to a tier 3 practice, and was told that nurses do all the cat castrates there

Re: cat castrates

Fiona Leathers — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:17:45 GMT

Shane - we're still allowed to do stich up & mior lumps removals, its just finding the vets that will allow nurses to do it.

Personally if it was my bitch getting spayed I wouldn't be happy if a nurse did it!! There are rules for reasons! It's hard enough watching a new grad vet doing a bitch spay far less watching a new nurse!!

Re: cat castrates

Vicky RVN — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:14:35 GMT

Bitch spays?! Blimey i find that shocking! I don't have a problem with the rules, at the end of the day nurses are there to nurse, vets are there to be vets. I think the roles should be kept that way. Although i do think some vets should be less careless with the way they do their dentals A few times i've watched a vet scaling and wished i could take it off them and take over cos they're doing it all wrong! Saying that we do have a vet who does fantastic dentals, and he's the one who has taught me to do them properly.

Re: cat castrates

Shane — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:44:28 GMT

stitch ups and lump removals as well for me. lol. I actually miss that aspect of my work. This country has too many rules! lol

Re: cat castrates

Charlotte says smile — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:42:56 GMT

Before it became illegal we did do them in my practice also stitch ups occasionally. not any more though!

Re: cat castrates

Shane — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:40:21 GMT

*cough* used to do cat + dog castrates plus bitch spays in my country before coming here....

Re: cat castrates

clarolux — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:00:06 GMT

At my last practice we all used to do cat castrates but once I had to become regisitered I stopped doing them but the other nurses carried on. Not worth getting caught out now. Used to do extractions before it was deemed to be an act of surgery!

Re: cat castrates

Judy Blythe — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:06:37 GMT

I have done both before it was decreed that it was illegal several years ago. At one stage it was a recognised grey area so you just did what your vet wanted you to do- now it is a lot more difficult to justify- ignorance is not a god defence!