Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Nicola Smith — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 13:07:04 GMT

Well kind of good news, her bloods are the same and her phos is nice and low, her urine is slightly more dilute as 0.016 but prot creat ratio normal which is good. Her legs are still about the same without the metacam so dont think it was doing anything anyway but still on cortavet at the moment, might try a different gluc/chond supplement to see if any better - might try cosequin as boss swears by that one. Boss is happy with her results and said to continue with renalzin and remonitor in about 3 months unless I feel she is worse or loses weight in mean time. On the IRIS scale we are staging her as a 2.

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Maisy — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:24:14 GMT

Keeping fingers crossed for better results

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

StephSVN — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 12:43:09 GMT

Fingers crossed for the results.

And as you stole some of her blood I think its only fair you have to give some up too! :-p

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Nicola Smith — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:46:29 GMT

Hi, well we have resampled her today but posting bloods to outside lab for more of a panel. Her urine SG has dropped from 1.023 to 1,016 so is worse, but she has not lost any weight which is good. She is having renalzin and fortekor. I am getting a C:PR ratio done on urine, and also a urine culture just incase as was a cysto sample and we recently had a siamese with a bad urine infection who has renal problems. Will let you know how the bloods are doing once get results hopefully tm.

PS. She drew blood on me and my boss!!

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Nicola Smith — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:25:36 GMT

Thanks everyone. She is on cortavet already, and is still doing ok without the metacam.

I still have not had chance to take her for repeat testing but hopefully will saturday. I unfortunately cannot do her bp as she turns psycho at the vets and we struggle to manage to do anything, taking blood is a real challenge hence why we only managed enough blood for biochem last time!! Quite an embarassment!! She can be a witch at home too - evrything is on he terms and even getting her in her carrier is a challenge. Nurses pets LOL!!!

She is insured so luckliy my vet Bill isn't a worry!

Will keep you posted once retest her.

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Alana Dent — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:18:58 GMT

Have you had her into work to monitor her Bp? high bp can be a contributer to damaged kidneys, now she is on the renal diet and the fortekor would be interesting to know if her bp does come down (if it is increased)

I have also seen good results with cartrophen, but that does have some contraindication with nsaid's if i remember coprrectly, so if you try that, i dont think you can instantly change back to Nsaid's. Maybe something like glucosamine could help!?

But with all these suggestions, your vet bill could be gaining interest with some speed lol!

Hope you get the results you need

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Freckle — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:34:08 GMT

i am quoting from my college notes here, that CRF shows no signs typically (incl biochem changes) until approx 75% of nephrons have been irreversibly damaged. This is beacause the body 'compensates', and it is only when the state enters 'decompensation' ie the body can lo longer make up for the kidney damage, that clinical signs and biochem changes become apparent.

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Nicola Smith — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:58:03 GMT

Her clinical signs are concerning me which is why I have stopped the NSAIDs, and her lameness is definitely no different without. Her drinking is still excesssive and she is urinating approximately 8 times daily. My main concern is that I regularly monitor her SG and she has alwasy been 1.045 ish so this is a definite decline for her. I am planning on getting a repeat SG next week with a urine culture from a cysto sample, and repeat bloods. She is clinically well but the urinating is still increasing. Even though her bloods are only top end normal the SG is what is guiding me at the moment to know something is wrong somewhere. My boss is medicine certificate holder and her feels she is in early renal insufficiency, and I am very wary of metacam having seen some cats get serious kidney issues on it - who knows if they are related or not but rather be safe than sorry and as she is no worse without it then don't see any benefit to continuing.

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Claire Cameron — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:10:27 GMT

Forgot to mention are you using IRIS guidelines or IDEXX?

http://www.iris-kidney.com/index.shtml

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:15:27 GMT

Am I reading this right??? you have taken your cat off her NSAID's and put her on renal food and phos binders, when she is not actually in renal failure...technically.. as her bloods were only top end of normal?? am I right?

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Laura Ringsell — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:05 GMT

have you considered cartrophen - it is off licence for cats but I have seen really good results - also seen good results with J/D.

If you want to go down the renal diet route a survey in the vet record a few years ago revealed that Specific gave the best results

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Nicola Smith — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:35:15 GMT

Thanks everyone. She is doing well. Have her on fortekor and renalzin. She is taking part renal wet or hills kd tin then part of her usual dry - mainly because I have a 5kg bag to use up!! She seems very happy in herself and appetite improved from last week. She has been off metacam for just over a week now and is doing ok, stil have her on the cortavet. Her lameness does not seem any worse at the moment but will see what happens after few weeks off it.

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Claire Cameron — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:39:19 GMT

[quote user="StephSVN"]

[quote user="Claire BearRVN"]

Assume you mean hyperthyroid?

[/quote]

Oops! Yep! I blame the fact I am supposed to be writing up my dissertation, my brain has decided that since I'm not doing any work, its not going to either!

[/quote]

I know the feeling. I have no excuse except I need a brew

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

StephSVN — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:38:30 GMT

[quote user="Claire BearRVN"]

Assume you mean hyperthyroid?

[/quote]

Oops! Yep! I blame the fact I am supposed to be writing up my dissertation, my brain has decided that since I'm not doing any work, its not going to either!

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Claire Cameron — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:35:39 GMT

[quote user="StephSVN"]was hypothyroid (Felimazole)[/quote]

Assume you mean hyperthyroid?

Have you considered Onsior? Renalzin and renal diet?

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

StephSVN — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:03:31 GMT

Our practice cat had renal failure (was on Fortekor and Hills k/d), was hypothyroid (Felimazole) and arthritic. He was on half dose Metacam for ages, which controlled his pain. We noticed he wasn't as active as he always had been, bloods were normal, so we increased up to recommended dose of Metacam and he went back to normal - a couple of months later his kidneys gave up and he was put to sleep. I know half dosing isn't recommended by the companies, but half dose controlled his pain for a good year or so, and think this illustrates the difference to the kidneys that half dose makes!

Obviously good to try all other avenues without the NSAIDs first, but may be something to consider when something extra is required?

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Vicky RVN — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:09:22 GMT

Good luck with medicating her! With regards to wet renal, i've found when feeding kitties we've got in the tuna it the favourite! I like the smell of it too

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Nicola Smith — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:26:34 GMT

Well spoke to boss and he said start on renalzin and fortekor. She is not taking fortekor in food and is a witch to dose so dont want to stress her out. She is on dry food so think I will get some wet renal today to see if she will take her tablet in that and possibly swop her more to a wet food. She has had rcw mobility food - rep said try that as would take place of cortavet but was loads worse without cortavet so have just stuck with that.

She is doing ok though her appetite is reduced from what it used to be, and she is peeing lots!! When should I retest her do you think?

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Vicky RVN — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:13:55 GMT

http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/forums/p/6237/61148.aspx#61148

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Vicky RVN — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:09:19 GMT

http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/forums/t/1465.aspx?PageIndex=2

Here is one...there is another though...

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

S-J — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:08:38 GMT

just a thought but what about the jd light to take into acount the weight and the range of movement, along with the renalzin

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Vicky RVN — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:05:46 GMT

You don't have to use Renalzin if the cat eats renal, but seem to remember the rep saying it is good to? I'm sure there is a thread on here from not long ago about Renalzin, will try to find it for you.

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Nicola Smith — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:41:06 GMT

Hi, not sure of her exact age as she s a rescue but somewhere 13-15 years old.

I had not thought of renalzin, will ask boss to see what he thinks. She is on a completely dry diet at the moment, but might bring some samples of renal from work to see if she will eat them. Do you use renalzin with renal food - don't know much about it?

I have taken her off the metacam for now so will see how creaky she gets without. Will definitely keep the onsior in mind. How long do you think I should leave it before restesting urine?

Thanks everyone

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Phrin Vernon RVN — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:39:07 GMT

I am pretty sure that my tutor said that by the time the bloods show anything then the kidneys will already be fairly compromised, so it may be worth considering a renal diet or phosphate binder.

I haven't qualified, but covered this in college a few weeks ago (and hope i am remembering correctly lol!)

Re: Cats kidneys and NSAIDs

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:22:14 GMT

Hi, have you thought about trying a Phosphate binder like Renalzin as opposed to changing her food just yet? If shes an older lady i wouldn't wait for clinical signs as by that point her renal function will already be fairly compromised but SG is defo a good and easy monitoring tool for CRI.