Rabbit renal failure?

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

LaurenA — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:52:11 GMT

Sorry for lack of update on bun, was waiting for what felt like an eternity for urine sample results.

All came back clear, no bacterial growth, no white cells etc. no blood, no glucose, no nothing!! Came back with frequent calcium carbonate, but told that's normal.

Spoke at length on phone to specialist rabbit vet who seems stumped aswell, in a way I was relieved as I was feeling guilty for not doing anything quicker! Bad news was that he said next step would be whole body xrays, poss ultrasound, ecg etc. costing in region of £250-300 :( Bun's willy a wee bit swollen now and belly seems a bit swollen, but other than that he's still so bright and eating. Just dont think I want to do that, put him through that for not much change in outcome probably :(

Am wondering about treating for E.cuniculi anyway, just incase even although he's showing no neurological signs? Anyone know the dose of Panacur?

Lauren xx

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

loobylou — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:40:24 GMT

Sorry I didnt explain myself very well, I have heard that if you take a sample out of one jugular then you cant go into the other side?

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Saskia Quinn — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:43:38 GMT

[quote user="loobylou"]

Slightly off topic but is it true you can only sample from one of the jugulars?

[/quote]

I would imagine it depends on how much sample you need, if only a small amount, marginal vein in ear should be ok, but probably jugular would be best

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

loobylou — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:49:07 GMT

Slightly off topic but is it true you can only sample from one of the jugulars?

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Hannah25uk — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:23:14 GMT

A link on E.cuniculi for you.

http://www.thebrc.org/health.htm

As for another blood sample, what veins have you tried if not all of them already lol. I find the Saphenous is generally the best vein if you can.

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Emma Dillon — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:52:05 GMT

Just seen your post. One of our receptionists bun-rays had renal failure confirmed after the vet ran bloods on the vet test. We did IV fluids for 72 hours and then the bun-ray went onto Fortekor same as they do for cats. Seemed to work well, might be worth asking your vet to inestigate for you. Hope you get it sorted. xx

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Saskia Quinn — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:41:40 GMT

One of my rabbits, now deceased was treated before for e-cunnucli using panacur as someone stated above. She had head tilt post anaesthetic for a dental.

In the end, she became blind and vet was confident she had suffered a stroke. Of course then panacur was no use and she was euthanased

I would imagine there would be other signs if your rabbit has e-cunnucli - ?head tilt? I could be wrong, worth looking into though. My guess is it wouldnt do any harm to treat with panacur anyway if getting another blood sample would cause to much stress etc.

Anyway, good luck and I hope you get to the bottom of it soon x

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

LaurenA — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:28:02 GMT

Thankyou again everyone :) hope i can be this helpful to someone else one day soon!

He's actually a wee bit brighter and drinking a bit less, ran the rest of the slides today and came back TP= 81 (50-75 normal) ALT= 27 (25-65 normal) and ALKP= 190 (10-70 normal?!!). Have increased his baytril too.

Didn't have a chance to ask a vet what the results might mean as boss not back until Friday and locum thinks rabbits belong in a pot! :(

If it was E.cuniculi would it sometimes not show neurological signs then? But would the renal results not be high then as it can cause renal problems? Don't know why urea and creat so low:(

I think I'll talk to boss on Friday and see how he goes, I'm off next week, could take him to exotic vet sneakily if he's no better lol :)

Have no idea in hell how we'd get another blood sample for E.cuniculi :s what a trauma!!

Thanks so much,

Lauren.

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Rachel Jayne — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:59:25 GMT

You can use fortekor 2.5mgs in rabbits - they take them quite well becasue of the vanillla flavour. we had one recently that we put on it. also you can try Ipakitine sprinkled on the food to help. also perked up really well after a day on i/v fluids.

Rabbits are on a VetTest under Laboratory Animals.....

Hope your bun is doing ok....

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:38:32 GMT

Just seen this thread. I'd suggest checking for E Cuniculi too..................

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

fairy — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:33:48 GMT

I have spoken to our vet who is rabbit mad. She has 13 of them and is very good with illnesses.

She suggests getting some more blood. sending it off for e cuniculi and if it comes back positive you will need to treat with panacur for at least 6 weeks sid.

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:03:50 GMT

Maybe get in touch with these guys for some advice???

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/System/practicedetail.asp?NodeID=89812&PracticeNodeID=375609&SearchType=practice

there is a girl on here who works for them.....

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

LaurenA — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:03:59 GMT

Hi Nick,

small practice in bonny Scotland! :)

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:47:48 GMT

Where are you based lauren???

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:46:57 GMT

aye, but a very special mini lop - she is your mini lop lol!!

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

LaurenA — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:34:45 GMT

thanks :) must have the most amount of vets on one mini lop ever lol :)

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:59:23 GMT

Gillian Mostyn - thats it!

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:57:05 GMT

no problem Lauren.

Rabbit medicine is a tricky one! I'm sure your vet would agree!

May be worth send a pm to Gillian - vet who is a member here, cant for the life of me remember her surname but will go have a look!

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

LaurenA — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:50:40 GMT

Thankyou Saskiavn :) was singing all of your praises to locum today for everyone's help :) x

might have written the poor bun off before his time again, poor wee man! My fiancee is equally attached to him and as a grown man said 'i hope he lives to see another christmas'!

That's amazing about your 13 year old bunny, such a long time and what an achievement, bet they were so devastated, but as you say once they look back on their bun's life can feel so proud for such loving care :)

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:32:32 GMT

Urea levels may be lower in hepatic disease, due to reduced production, especially in severe or chronic cases of insufficiency. But thats only a maybe - so dont spend too much time dwelling on it.

Anything to do with liver would probably be anorexic, lethargic & weight loss, jaundice - though not always visible. dont think drinking & peeing more, though I could be wrong

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

LaurenA — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:19:01 GMT

Help!! So confused!! Took Indie to work today and finally, finally got enough blood from him (I never knew it was so difficult and rock on the locum vet who cracked it in the end!).

Put Crea, Urea and Glucose through our Idexx machine as had enough blood and results were : Crea= 35 micromol/l

Urea= 3.8mmol/L (9.1-25.5 is norm i think?)

Glucose= 7.60 (norm 4.2-8.9)

No normal rabbit values at work ( I know!) so googled when I came home, can't find normal rabbit Creat values online?

So obviously not what I was thinking and just read that low crea/urea levels sign of overhydration (duh!) and possibly hepatic?

What do you all think? Might see if I can get any results with rest of Pre-Anaesthetic slides tomorrow.

Would anything hepatic make him drink and pee so much?

Due to my work being obviously unbun friendly it's a diagnose your own bun affair!!

Thanks xxx

PS. Did you know on our Idexx machine you can test a sea turtle and not a rabbit under 'other species'. Random!!!

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:15:01 GMT

Hey Lauren,

You are welcome

Buster collars are normally a 'no way' in rabbbits because of them needing to eat their caecotrophs, but I would definitely recommended one in your case, just for the initial 20-30 mins after you apply the vaseline or sudocream. At least that way, it will be able to absorb and do its job before he has chance to lick it off

I saw a 13 year old rabbit today!!!! Was sad though as she came in for euthanasia, she was blind but coping well with no sight, it was the fact she had gone off her back legs and was no longer able to groom herself so back end was in a bit of a mess. Owners were devastated and I fought hard to fight my own tears for their grief and also the thought of my own little girl at home

However, they left the hospital knowing that they had done their absolute best for the rabbit for every year of her life and were happy in the fact they they had made the right decision based on her quality of life.

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

LaurenA — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:43:20 GMT

Thanks Saskiavn and Maisy :) he seems quite bright tonight, i'm going to clean his bed out daily and he's just got vetbed downstairs too so sure that will help. How much vaseline/sudocreme is fatal? lol :) he's been a little devil in trying to lick the surolan off his feet in recent weeks.

Absolutely awful how attached you get to them, eh :) x i read an article at work about someone losing their bun and being upset everytime they chopped carrots etc. and they weren't there to feed, i was nearly blubbing in the office!

I've maybe written him off yet again and he may prove me wrong (again!). Will let you all know xx

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:32:36 GMT

Also if he is lying around a lot, and if you have not already done this, put him on an incontinance pad, that way at least the worst of the urine will not affect him.

Re: Rabbit renal failure?

Saskia Quinn — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:01:22 GMT

I would agree with Maisy, vaseline is another good one though these creams can get a little messy!!

A rabbit I had once was prone to urine scald and she would let me bathe her by setting her bottom end in sink of lukewarm water and wash with baby shampoo, it really did ease it for her, then afterwards I would have put on either sudocream or vaseline - whatever was to hand at the time. Sometimes, this needed done every day to keep her happy and I felt that removing the hair was the best thing I could have done.

Will look forward to hearing results, do keep us updated.