Looking into dog bites

RE: Looking into dog bites

Sal the 1st — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 19:39:56 GMT

I would tend to agree with you. Our guard dog at the hangars is a collie x labrador https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty/31256/a-bit-of-advice-needed-please . He is extremely good at his job, has never bitten anybody and on the two occasions now that he has intercepted intruders he has 'herded' them into a corner and there they stay until the security bod calls him off

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With regard to breedism (I'll get my tin hat) behaviour is inherited.

If you selectively breed for - herding, pointing, scent and so on its not a surprise when a Collie herds, a Visla points, and a foxhound follows a scent why is it so abhorrent to think that a dog selectively bred for fighting / aggression/ attacking will do so?

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RE: Looking into dog bites

Sal the 1st — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 19:12:34 GMT

we have yet to see them - owner cancelled appointment for 1st one and hadn't made appointment for the other pending outcome of the 1st dog. I know she wasn't keen on us seeing them outside but we have started seeing clients in the building again now.

Must add this bit tho - I saw a little French bulldog yesterday for nail clip - he is 6months old. I saw him when he was 16 weeks old and he was already biting family members then and throwing a hissy fit with teeth when he didn't want to do something. I warned them then to get him used to having ears, feet. mouth etc handled and getting him used to a few ground rules or he would be a real handful when he was older.

At 5months of age he was a little sod and had a go at me when I tried to weigh him, couldn't get near his feet to tip his nails - so I warned them again take him in hand before he hurts somebody, gave them a few tips on reward based training and not getting into a fight with him

Yesterday he came in for his 6 month check, I'll grant you he isn't perfect, the glare I got from him when I picked up a foot to look at his nails I should have dropped dead on the spot but he did let me look at his nails and clip a couple of them even if he grumbled a bit, he let me have a very quick look at his ears, he even let me wipe away some discharge near one of his eyes ...... and then he sat there staring me out. Owner says give him a treat can you please, I could give him a treat but think it would be better from you. He took a treat, very gentle no grabbing, ate his treat, gave me a high five for another treat.

It just shows you it can be done with a motivated client

RE: Looking into dog bites

Alison Clare Hickman — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 06:06:38 GMT

Just replying to Sal the 1st... Have the demonic possessed canines been dealt with, had their vaccinations, and are you still in one piece my dear?! She says with everything crossed extremely hopefully!!!

RE: Looking into dog bites

Clare Espley — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 09:47:59 GMT

In practice, the worse bite I had was from a miniature poodle (Don't laugh!) when I was a student, I needed lots of stitches in 3 fingers. I've also been bitten by a boxer and a border collie.. After over 20 years in practice I am thankfully much better at reading my patients, but you still get the odd surprise. In my opinion and experience the dogs most likely to snap/bite in practice tend to be the smaller terrier breeds like JRTs and westies, chihuahuas and french bulldogs - I think that they are not treated properly by their owners (babies rather than dogs) and never learn to tolerate any kind of handling or self control, so they are much quicker to react negatively - it never ceases to amaze me the amount of owners that admit they or their family members are regularly growled at, snapped at and actually bitten by their little breed dogs.

RE: Looking into dog bites

Clare Espley — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 09:34:48 GMT

Please tell me more about these restraint kennels, where do we get one?

RE: Looking into dog bites

jenni99 — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 19:48:06 GMT

x you need a sliding restraint kennel - like a crush cage - (no crushing ) - we have two - malamute plus size. (mixed practice - bulls, grummpy pigs, odd dog crosses - no probs ) xx

RE: Looking into dog bites

Ian M — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 13:14:32 GMT

Dog bite incidents are more likely to include a range of situations, with a proportion of scenarios where a dog actively approaches a victim and makes an attack. Cats tend to bite defensively when cornered or being handled for treatment or moving (I know some dog bites arise from that as well). The media isn't that interested in workplace or domestic bite injuries but is interested in dogs attacking third party humans or animals, especially when the dog has been at large.

And I agree, we should avoid the inherent nonsense of the "deed not breed" phraseology. Of course deed will play a part in demeanour and innate temperament, that's the whole point of breeding for purpose.

RE: Looking into dog bites

Ben Ogden — Tue, 02 Mar 2021 15:42:19 GMT

There is plenty of stuff out there about predictable traits one can expect from breeds, that is different from 'these breeds bite and these don't'.

The biggest cause I can see for bites is the lack of understanding about typical breed traits.

RE: Looking into dog bites

Sal the 1st — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:15:54 GMT

I have never met a nice sharpei - and you have just reminded me we have two from the same family that are due vaccine very very soon or they will need to restart. Owner has already told us there is no way we will be able to handle them without her present so she will have to come in the building. She isn't keen on us vaccinating them in the car park and to be honest neither am I - I don't want it turning into a spectator sport. The only good thing is that she can't have both dogs in the car together otherwise they would kill each other so we will only have to see one at a time

RE: Looking into dog bites

Julie-Anne Wilson — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 16:51:41 GMT

My only 2 bad bites have been from a GSD and a bulldog. The GSD gave no warning and I was thankfully quick enough to pull away without any lasting damage and the bulldog put me out of commission for a good couple of weeks.

The breeds I feel like I muzzle more are: westies, chihuahuas, JRTs, shih tzus, lhasas & collies. I try not to be breedist but I've only ever met one shar-pei in my lifetime that didn't need muzzled so I tend to be very wary with them.

RE: Looking into dog bites

jenni99 — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:52:34 GMT

With regard to breedism (I'll get my tin hat) behaviour is inherited.

RE: Looking into dog bites

jenni99 — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:47:11 GMT

In the media SBT may, just possibly be a euphemism for PIt Bull/Pittie cross. x

Chihuahua - yep - but they are less likely to do a lot of damage - there have been fatalities involving babies with JRTs and one fatality involving a Pom . Personally been bitten 3 times. Only once injured. A Ridgeback / Mastiff cross from a "rescue" that also did "training" and "security" The owner and chief "trainer" wouldn't let the nurses hold it - but he let go of it when it went for me. Still got the scars - I swear I felt its tooth hit my bone, personally I think if one of the vets hadn't by happenchance been crossing the room and grabbed it by the skin of its back quarter I think it would have been a lot lot worse. The "trainer" had a good turn of speed away from the dog :) :)

I've been bitten several times with no adverse effects by Chihuahuas, and a once a Cavalier

RE: Looking into dog bites

PJ Zurawel — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:00:55 GMT

I agree that I've been bitten more by cats than dogs and I'm sure if its just because I understand dogs better. Figures for cat bites causing hospitalisation are also quite high and yet the media shy away from this sort of thing. I do wonder if its because of the size difference or a lack of fatalities???

RE: Looking into dog bites

Laura — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 15:57:07 GMT

I think I've seen examples of most breeds out there showing extreme behaviours but of course the media will always publish the most dramatic stories out there and there will be greater damage (and drama) surrounding a SBT attack than a Chihuahua attack. Breed stigma is very much still a thing and the media loves to fuel a fire.

Been bitten three times, all minor and just causing scrapes/bruising - French bulldog, toy poodle, westie. Have also been hospitalised for a cat bite and all the worst bites I've seen in practice have been from cats, not dogs.

RE: Looking into dog bites

Olivia Coulton — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 22:28:40 GMT

I am also one not to be 'breedist' shall we say as I have had many people tell me that chihuahuas don't give any warning when they bite but the reality is they do give lots of warning and because they are so subtle people miss it. We are all human and we do miss things very easily when we are trying to do things like auscultate as we are watching our watches instead of the dog etc. We have to remember most aggression in dogs comes from the fact that particular dog is unconfident or has had a bad past experience, generally most dogs are unconfident when they come to the vets as most of them will only come in when they need something doing so it knocks their confidence. I have been lucky in the fact I worked for a charity that did a lot of behaviour work and worked with some trainers to be able to see the signs but I do think there should be a module in the nurse training courses on behaviour and CPD that is affordable specifically for nurses in practice too. The worst and only bite I have ever had was from a Greyhound, I took the vet wrap off the catheter and it bit my arm multiple times in a very split second then ran back into the kennel and started guarding to this day I cannot remember seeing any signs of warning but I must have missed something as there are very few dogs out there that do not give any warning. I have seen one very bad bite from a mastiff cross on a colleague. I think as people have said the bigger dogs seem to get the most press about bites due to the damage they can do and although a small dog can do a lot of damage it never equates to what a bigger dog can do.

RE: Looking into dog bites

Ben Ogden — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 22:28:37 GMT

Just wait, all these poodle cross breeds in unsuitable homes...

RE: Looking into dog bites

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:36:30 GMT

Me: one Labrador and one Retriever cross both very minor but only because I was quick to get out of the way. Both due to owners taking muzzles off as they felt they were unnecessary!

One SBT - Hand injury - hospital job. Dog PTS as repeat offender.

Funniest - not me, but a cranky old vet who got his comeuppance from a small wiley dachshund... He'd been shouting at said daxie to "lie still you stupid dog" and tapped her quite sharply on the snoot for her troubles (I was horrified). She extracted revenge as he bent down to examine her with his opthalmascope by snapping at the tip of his nose. Hahahaha! Satisfaction Guaranteed. Smug daxie. Snickering nurse....

RE: Looking into dog bites

Sal the 1st — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 20:55:44 GMT

I have had just 3 bad bites in nearly 40yrs - 1 was a staffy cross boxer which was in for pts having bitten most of the members of the family it lived with in a single day, somehow woke up from a whacking dose of xylazine (this was before domitor came out) and grabbed hold of my kneecap, it didnt let go until it was dead - didn't need stitches but was a bit sore for a while. 2 Rotti x ripped the backside out of a new pair of jeans and tried to expose my shoulder blade, was no warning but I think this dog was merely protecting its property - happened when I was walking between two vehicles in a car park, it came through the open van window and grabbed me. Felt a bit bad about this one -the dog was only doing what it had been taught to do and ended up pts. Cost me a few stitches 3 Cocker Spaniel with 'rage' this one was a repeat biter and was being seen by a behaviourist, family ended up terrified of it - managed to get a couple of us - also pts

near misses have been Border collie, miniature dachs (yes I couldn't believe this one either) Airedales- I think I only know of about two nice ones, Standard poodle, we have a couple of evil beagles, Frenchies and pugs and we have a bulldog you just can't get near. We have had some dodgy Akitas and Mamalutes (but also some that are really nice dogs) and some really dodgy great danes (mostly harlequins) Historically our area had some really nasty setters and retrievers. The trend now is mastiff and mastiff cross.

I think more people report certain breeds whilst other breeds get away with it because of their size and perceived personality traits - ie you aren't going to get too many blokes owning up to being mangled by a chew woo a A because its only a small dog and B because they have a reputation for being little shits. I think a former boss summed it up quite nicely. 'if your dinner party story involves a dog bite 60kg rottie is respectable - pomeranian is comedy value'

RE: Looking into dog bites

Joanna Scott QTLS, RVN — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:36:58 GMT

It may also be that the damage potential is that much greater from a Rottie, than from a Chihuahua (incidentally I have both breeds at home). That may also have an impact on people's reaction to a breed.

RE: Looking into dog bites

PJ Zurawel — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:06:29 GMT

Hi Joanna, I'm currently studying behaviour and I 100% agree about the breed descrimination and suspect this is the reason that certain breeds of dog keeps popping up in the news reports and this is the reason for the question really because I know that any dog can become stressed and act out but people dont report a chihuahua being aggressive but expect it from a rottweiler. I would definately be interested in your perspective.

RE: Looking into dog bites

Joanna Scott QTLS, RVN — Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:29:59 GMT

As a behaviourist who specialised in aggressive behaviour, I won’t say aggressive dogs, it would be slightly unfair to demonise any breed. I have avoided many bites and that I think it a very important point. It’s not necessarily the bite from which breed it’s how much warning they give, how many have you been able to avoid because you saw the warning signs and acted accordingly? There were certain breeds that I saw more of, due to a number of reasons. Indiscriminate breeding due to sudden popularity, unsuitable breeds in unsuitable homes, unrealistic expectations from owners the list goes on. But I will say to answer your question that the breed that seems to like the taste of me is dachshunds, but I know many who are lovely!

RE: Looking into dog bites

Selena Carnell — Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:20:33 GMT

I've been bitten twice in my career not badly but enough to break the skin / badly bruise and once a couple of puncture wounds in my arm. One was a Chow chow, the other a GSD, the vet ignore my comment that the muzzle was off!

Never been bitten by a cat luckily. plenty of scratches and scars from claws!

RE: Looking into dog bites

Julie-ann Machin — Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:11:02 GMT

I've been bitten most by boxers and jrt's. The worst bite I saw was from a sharpei. If we had more body language training then we could reduce bites in practice and advise owners and schools better.

RE: Looking into dog bites

Sophie Graham — Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:24 GMT

Hi,

my lasting memories of dog bites have actually been from Golden Retrievers. I have wondered if it is because they are often a little more likely to be arthritic than other breeds, so it’s a reaction to pain when they are being examined or treated.