Caesarian Sections

RE: Caesarian Sections

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 21:56:46 GMT

[quote user="apache"]It seems my earlier post has been heavily edited? Arlo Guthrie[/quote]

Nope. Not me, guv'nor. Early onset dementia on your part? (joking aside, I really didn't touch it).

RE: Caesarian Sections

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 21:35:16 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[quote user="apache"]

I can see that there is absolutely a situation where something may need genuine critical care equipment and specialists, but that is exceptionally rare. I've been practising over 10 years and it's never happened yet. Whilst I absolutely agree that the critical care (where needed) should be charged properly, I disagree that having that available should load the cost of the operation. If I decide to buy a piece of equipment I have to make the money back by using it - not having it sat there.

Actually most people don't want the highest quality, gold standard, care. They want their pet 'fixed' as cost effectively as possible. There is no reason to gold plate the care that much. I really feel that it's about doing as much as is necessary. I would be perfectly happy with our standard of care on my own bitch in such a situation, with no ventilator in sight!

[/quote]

and that is the criteria I use - would I be happy having my own pet treated at the practice I work in?

[/quote]

Me too! And when we spayed my bitch she got into trouble and I would have given my kingdom for a ventilator!

And I wish it was rare - after my last block of night shifts I am, as always, totally bushed.

Again, maybe a demographic thing regarding what people are happy to pay for.

RE: Caesarian Sections

Sal the 1st — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 21:22:25 GMT

[quote user="apache"]

[/quote]

and that is the criteria I use - would I be happy having my own pet treated at the practice I work in?

RE: Caesarian Sections

Sal the 1st — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 21:16:42 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]

the PSS is hardly the paragon of high quality Veterinary Care, it's about ticking the boxes...

[/quote]

definitely agreed. At first I thought you were dissing the practices that might not be referral, all bells and whistles standard but never the less do a bloody good job with the resources they have. Sorry , misunderstanding . I am just feeling quite tetchy at the minute over a number of work related issues.

I have worked a number of 'dedicated' places OOH who supposedly are a higher standard than the practice I work now but the reality is that they really aren't, in spite of what it says on paper and the prices they charge

RE: Caesarian Sections

apache — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 19:41:04 GMT

It seems my earlier post has been heavily edited? Arlo Guthrie

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]Re. the earlier points regarding Csections and associated costs, when things go pear-shaped and they need to be transferred to a hospital with ECC vets and nurses, ventilators and other sundry equipment as afore-mentioned - the money to pay for this stuff has to come from somewhere.. [/quote]

RE: Caesarian Sections

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 18:52:52 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]

Exactly, swap the PSS to a 5 star 'quality' standards scheme and you get a sudden visual on what quality you're receiving for your money. Pie in the sky thought though, quanitfying the PSS into a 5 star rating system wouldn't be possible, but the PSS is hardly the paragon of high quality Veterinary Care, it's about ticking the boxes...

[/quote]

At least we now have the additional awards to go with the PSS which I think will help clients to differentiate practices that are outstanding in certain areas.

Re. the earlier points regarding Csections and associated costs, when things go pear-shaped and they need to be transferred to a hospital with ECC vets and nurses, ventilators and other sundry equipment as afore-mentioned - the money to pay for this stuff has to come from somewhere..

RE: Caesarian Sections

Alison Clare Hickman — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 18:03:01 GMT

Can't help myself... Everytime I see the acronym PSS I think the letter 'i' is missing...

RE: Caesarian Sections

Ben Ogden — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:49:43 GMT

RE: Caesarian Sections

Sal the 1st — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:45:05 GMT

lower prices don't always equal poorer standards the same as higher prices for added garnish don't guarantee a higher standard.

RE: Caesarian Sections

Ben Ogden — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:30:48 GMT

hmm bad turn of phrase,

How about pulling their finger out?....

Maybe a different turn again...

In short, uping their standards.

RE: Caesarian Sections

Sal the 1st — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:23:28 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]

That would certainly get some practices puling their pants up

[/quote]

and the insinuation there is ?

RE: Caesarian Sections

Ben Ogden — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 09:27:04 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]

Absolutely it's the same down here in terms of clients shopping around for the cheapest (which we are not) - but if they come to us out of hours they will see an ECC Cert. vet in a RCVS accredited 24hour hospital with comprehensive anaesthetic monitoring equipment, ventilator, state of the art ultrasound, endoscopy, laparoscopy, xray and lab machines etc. and that is what they are paying for. From the point of view of a price comparison the OP (or client) needs to know that they are comparing apples with apples.

Yes I agree with having a surcharge for clients who aren't registered with you or have a subscription agreement with you. That's what we do.

[/quote]

That is probably where the PSS is suppose to play in, however it seems to be not well enough known and clients don't know the difference anyway...

Maybe practices should be graded like Hotels on a 1-5 star basis? That would certainly get some practices puling their pants up

RE: Caesarian Sections

Sal the 1st — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 03:09:33 GMT

I think the most we have charged is about £600 - which is probably why we end up with them. I agree with Apache in that some of the OOH providers take the pee. I really don't think that anybody is offering an appreciably different service to us locally and yet we are about half the cost - like I said before we charge what we feel is a fair price for the work done, we don't over egg it.

RE: Caesarian Sections

apache — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:17:46 GMT

Daytime so would have been +£100 OOH

Including a lateral radiograph to see what is in there and meds to go home - somewhere £550-600. Can't remember exactly. More for a bigger dog as the GA is based on weight.

RE: Caesarian Sections

Claire Mariner — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:12:23 GMT

Can I ask roughly how much you billed in comparison to the OOH provider? Much appreciated

RE: Caesarian Sections

apache — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:06:57 GMT

[quote user="Kerry H"]Thanks for taking the time to reply. I’ve heard that most practices charge £1000 we’re a lot cheaper than that [/quote]

So are we. We just had a situation where one of our clients daughters moved away and the farm dog needed a caesarian. The OOH provider quoted £1500-2000 and they simply couldn't afford that, so drove 90 mins back 'home' to us. Not irresponsible breeding, just a bitch in trouble. It's an hours work for a vet and a nurse, handy if a 3rd assistant but far from essential. I disagree that it should cost more just because you have a heap of expensive equipment at your disposal - the equipment is the same as a bitch spay plus maybe a couple of laparotomy swabs and some flush. It's technically much easier Sx than a bitch spay, in basically every GP surgeons competence. It's an immensely satisfying operation (most of the time).

Whilst I do not agree with breeding any animal we don't believe can give birth naturally, people charging a 4 figure sum are taking the piss and seeing what they can get away with IMO. This does not go along with "ABOVE ALL, my constant endeavour will be to ensure the health and welfare of animals committed to my care."

Even if someone is stupid enough to breed their pug/frenchie knowing it cannot give birth, at the point it is presented to the practice is not the time to somehow punish them by charging a heap of money.

RE: Caesarian Sections

Claire Mariner — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 21:35:41 GMT

Some great, really valuable feedback. Thank you so much

RE: Caesarian Sections

Claire Mariner — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 21:33:17 GMT

Thanks for replying

RE: Caesarian Sections

Claire Mariner — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 21:32:43 GMT

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I’ve heard that most practices charge £1000 we’re a lot cheaper than that

RE: Caesarian Sections

Sal the 1st — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 23:12:58 GMT

[quote user="Kerry H"]

I feel my practice really undercharges for Caesarian, the reason I think this is because more and more clients from further afield are wanting to travel to us to have a scheduled c-section. Can you give me a rough idea of how much your practices charge. Thanks you. Much appreciated as always :)

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could you do some 'secret shopper' phone calls locally and see what others are charging in the area - it might give you a few ideas? we have a daytime and ooh price which is basically the daytime price +ooh cons+ nurse call out.

RE: Caesarian Sections

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 20:25:27 GMT

RE: Caesarian Sections

Sal the 1st — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 20:10:22 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]

Also in reference to the original post, figures are rather meaningless to compare without knowing what is involved (i.e. anaesthetic protocols, number of staff involved and their level of training, monitoring equipment and facilities available etc. etc.)

[/quote]

it doesn't really work that way near me. Using the OOH service instead of us you probably have the same chance of getting 1 student nurse or a VCA over a qualified nurse, a vet with less experience than ours and comparable facilities and we are always cheaper. If their practice is a bit further out and they use the 2nd other OOH provider they may get better facilities but possibly a locum vet with limited experience a qualified nurse (who also may be a locum) and the benefit of a receptionist until 11pm and they will cost probably a couple of hundred plus or even a thousand more than us. It seems that all that matters to the people who need the service is how much it costs, not what the actual service offers. Whilst I agree those offering a ''better'' service should charge more that really isn't happening near me - we charge what we see as a fair rate for the work done, we seriously are not looking for new clients. The only way round this I can see is for those that aren't our clients (the ones that argue we are putting the bitch will be at risk if they have to travel further, and other threats or telling us they aren't registered anywhere else) to pay a surcharge that would then bring the price they pay more in line with what they would pay elsewhere.

RE: Caesarian Sections

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 19:42:21 GMT

RE: Caesarian Sections

Selena Carnell — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 15:59:46 GMT

Scheduled c sections are a no no in my eyes, if they think there are going to be problems they shouldn't be bred from in the first place.

RE: Caesarian Sections

Sal the 1st — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 01:57:05 GMT

we have the same problem. People calling up for a price in case their bitch needs a caesar. I usually ask which vet they are registered with whilst I am collecting details and then advise them that without actually seeing their bitch beforehand (and give them the consult price for seeing them during regular practice hours) it is impossible to give an estimate for surgery, I offer the option of making them an appointment with us once I have obtained details from their previous vet so that their bitch can be examined and we are aware of history before she may need surgery and that sometimes puts a few off if they don't want their regular vet to know they are shopping around. We aren't keen on doing elective caesars based purely on breeder dates as often they are wrong. I recall one where the breeder was insistent that the bitch was overdue by almost a week - she wasn't when we opened her up, puppies were all under developed and she lost the lot.

We are an independent practice doing our own ooh whereas most practices in the immediate area are corporate and using ooh service which some clients don't like either because it means them travelling further or mostly because they are a lot more expensive than us. I absolutely dread the callers that say I am a breeder of bulldogs,Frenchies, Bostons, staffies,pugs, chihuahuas (breed in interchangeable or could be all of them) telling me that if we can do them a good price they can put a lot of business our way. Seeing a heavily pregnant bitch out of hours with no previous history is not good for the bitch and is the quickest way to a bad debtor - I have seen it happen so many times.