Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

RE: Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

Chippet — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:15:02 GMT

I've read all this with interest.

There's a lot of buzz around Chloroprep, and I recently did an infection control CPD where I wondered if Invicta actually sponsored it

There is evidence out there that Chlorhex in Isopropyl 2:70% is preferred over lesser dilutions, or even surgical spirit itself. However personally I hate the single use culture that the NHS and now the veterinary profession seems to be utilising. Yes I see it's requirement in some cases, but others seem very wasteful.

We do use Vetasept, for surgical procedures, but think it would be better used for IV placements for the residual action of the Chlorhex.

Just my opinion

RE: Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

Sal the 1st — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:32:12 GMT

This is how I feel. I try to keep up to date on new stuff and new ideas about how things should and shouldn't be done but often the evidence being presented to support something just isn't relevant to the job we are doing or has been manipulated to fit in with what somebody wants it to say-. Lets face it even ladies of a certain age that are a bit hairier than average are still not going to have as much hair as the bitch spay sitting in the kennel waiting on its surgery and they definitely won't have had a good old roll around in fox poo the night before or have clipper rash so how will the facts and figures for human trials measure up to what we are working with?.

I work on the premise that if what I am doing is achieving what it needs to achieve safely and without problems then that makes it effective, if there are problems then it is ineffective and needs to be reviewed (and this is a continuous exercise). It doesn't stop me looking at or trying new stuff and if I come across a product or method better than what I am already doing then I will take it on board and use it, but I'm not the sort of person who automatically believes the patter without seeing it for myself. I am one of those PITA people who ask questions. I agree with Apache in that a lot of what is supposed to be evidence based is actually more opinion based dressed up as evidence

RE: Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

Alice Weaver — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:25:44 GMT

It’s difficult isn’t it?! I always want to make use of EBVM but a lot of the time ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ may be a fair bet. We’ve been using dilute chlorhex on a non sterile swab followed by spirit on a non sterile swab to prep for catheters and blood draws and I’ve never seen a problem. I appreciate i could do an internal audit. My practice was a 24hr centre until a year ago so is packed full of different kit that different vets and VNs have sworn by over the years... so we have lots of the Chlorhex clear spray bottles and didnt want them to go to waste!

I understood the the hypothesis behind the use of spray bottles is that aerosol spray in a theatre may disturb dust and hair and spray it on to the site and that multi-use spray bottles may be prone to harbouring bacteria in the nozzles. But there have been no comprehensive studies about this. I did consider applying for a grant to do a study about this! But I wouldn’t really know where to begin or how to do it properly- how often to swab? What to culture for?

talk about a tangent! Sorry

RE: Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

Sal the 1st — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 17:48:49 GMT

[quote user="apache"]

(as I stand next to a pressurised oxygen cylinder, fag in mouth, with a few scented candles for ambience.....)

[/quote]

really wish I hadn't read that with a mouth full of coca cola

RE: Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

apache — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 02:15:13 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]There are always more ways than one to get results - for Invicta maybe their way is the only way but that isn't to say there are other effective methods out there.[/quote]

I agree, wholeheartedly. They claim "evidence based". On their website they cryptically link 4 papers. The first paper shows that skin bacteria cause surgical site infections! The second is a series of experiments done in human patients that showed generally chlorhex and alcohol was better than either on their own - but in some cases it failed to kill enough bacteria! The third and forth are not listed on Pubmed, one of them only being conference proceedings.

None of the published evidence I can find is done in veterinary patients. Human paper looking at infection rates with cardiac and spinal surgery found Chloraprep performed a bit worse than iodine in alcohol! I like this study where they found a lot more areas not cleaned using Chloraprep compared to conventional scrubbing (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27083319)! When they start claiming that a spray is a fire hazard I feel they are scraping the barrel (as I stand next to a pressurised oxygen cylinder, fag in mouth, with a few scented candles for ambience.....)

Edit: It gets better. There's a helpful document with 2 more human references called "technical update, surgical". We see that the product is mildly more effective in 1 out of 5 cases when tested in a lab and not with real patients. The other claim that "single use applicators should be used" is based on an OPINION article and that opinion is not supported by any evidence. I'm keeping my multi use bottle of Hibitane in alcohol!!!!!!!!!

To be clear I am not knocking the product, but I want some good evidence that it works in our veterinary patients to reduce post operative infection rates over and above what is happening now in the typical first opinion practice. Until then I'm not going to waste my lunch listening to them.

Lets not leap on the 'gold standard' bandwagon.

RE: Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

Sal the 1st — Fri, 26 Jul 2019 23:43:17 GMT

[quote user="bumble bee"]

.After a skin prep lunch & learn by Invicta we all should be using 2% chlorhex in 70% isopropyl alcohol.

[/quote]

There are always more ways than one to get results - for Invicta maybe their way is the only way but that isn't to say there are other effective methods out there. I really dislike this sort of statement as it implies if you aren't doing it their way you aren't doing it right -(incidentally I was using chlorhex in alcohol as a prep at least 20yrs ago. Yes its effective but there are equally effective different ways of doing things where you don't get skin reactions to the alcohol being used).

RE: Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

Ariana Gooderham — Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:52:35 GMT

we use in place of spirit, and use chloloprep pre-op for skin prep after an initial scrub of hibi.

RE: Vetasept Chlorhexidine Clear Spray Use

bumble bee — Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:22:52 GMT

We use it for bloods sampling , cannulae placement after hibi prep .After a skin prep lunch & learn by Invicta we all should be using 2% chlorhex in 70% isopropyl alcohol.Sprays are also a fire hazard so we have started to use is sprayed onto a strerile swab to prep surgical sites. Invicta do great prep packed chlor hex sponges for skin prep too . Very intersting lunch & learn.