No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

apache — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 13:25:28 GMT

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]NO arguments with making time for yourself, as that's what I think apache is getting at... and maybe the suggestion of making the vet a coffee is a bit cheeky but when I think about it it's a good one as at least it means you are making your team aware you need a break/sustenance and you've got their attention as to where you are going... sometimes the more 'subtle' methods of getting where you need to be work best... I'd do it, sit down whilst the kettle boiled, put my feet up, have a scratch and adjust me panties and maybe eat something. I think that's what apache was driving at?[/quote]

That is exactly what I meant. It's a subtle way of saying "I need a break" rather than quoting employment law and locking yourself in the toilet for 20 mins. In our practice I drink most coffee, so make most for everyone else. If someone ask me if I want one, I will always say yes and assume the subtext is they just need 10 mins. I'm ok with that. as long as I get the coffee!

I totally agree that staffing levels need to be looked into if you are working solid all night, but make sure you look at all aspects before making too much fuss. Could you try and arrange the work a little better so you can get a little time to yourself? I have a friend (vet) who stopped doing night work after similar issues meant a rota change was brought in so people did shorter shifts but a lot more nights (7pm-1pm and midnight to 8am). With hindsight they'd have rather worked the full night and had more days completely off. The other staffing issue to consider is there is a massive difference between having 1 or 2 nurses all night - there needs to be a hell of a lot of work if one person could do it at a push. The last thing I want is too much sitting doing nothing in the middle of the night - I'd rather be kept busy.

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

Alison Clare Hickman — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:27:40 GMT

NO arguments with making time for yourself, as that's what I think apache is getting at... and maybe the suggestion of making the vet a coffee is a bit cheeky but when I think about it it's a good one as at least it means you are making your team aware you need a break/sustenance and you've got their attention as to where you are going... sometimes the more 'subtle' methods of getting where you need to be work best... I'd do it, sit down whilst the kettle boiled, put my feet up, have a scratch and adjust me panties and maybe eat something. I think that's what apache was driving at?

Apache is a voice of common-sense reason and I didn't read the comment as being over critical. I do however agree it is difficult to set aside our natural instinct as nurses to put our patients first each and every time and above our own needs. I have found out the hard way that, as altruistic as that is, my old carcase cannot do so any longer (and suffered the health issues that this created) and so I make time to give myself a break (and an uninterrupted and non-guilty one).

The essential missing element here which Former Member identifies (as well as other posters) is STAFFING levels. Inadequate. Need more bodies. It is NOT your fault if this is the case and you can't therefore do everything that needs doing at all times for ever and ever and ever and importantly to your own physical and mental detriment. I now look at it this way (to assuage any guilt and keep my work efficient and professional); if I am soooo exhausted I make a critical error when tending to my patients then THAT is my motivation to stop, rest and recuperate and thus avoid exhaustion and stupid mistakes as a result...

Speak to your bosses. Doing the research as previously detailed about what you are working, when and how and what you need about the way the work is scheduled to change, in order to cope, is a great idea. Look after your own health as carefully as you would do for one of your patients.

xxx

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

enigmaticat-uk — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:21:23 GMT

As far as I am aware it is a legal requirement to have a full 20 minute UNINTERRUPTED break if you work 6 hours or more (and it shouldn't be immediately at the beginning or end of the shift). Obviously it's expected that due to the nature of emergency medicine that these can't always be planned but there should be some provision from the employer to make sure that it is possible to take this break at some point during the shift (by having the staff cover each other for this) - occasionally as vet professionals we accept that there may be a rare time where the shit hits the fan & it's impossible but this should not be a regular occurrence - if it is then more staff are needed to provide adequate cover for the workload. Keep a log at the end of each shift of what breaks were had by staff members (over eg a month) & present that to management if you feel it is an issue & document everything & get them to sign records of your conversation about this. If nothing changes then you have evidence that your employer is breaking the law to take to an employment tribunal.

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

Alison Clare Hickman — Mon, 15 Jul 2019 18:54:42 GMT

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/taking-breaks

This is the UK employment law. I have found it useful to waft in front of bosses before now but with the caveat that of course I will be reasonable about it if they are reasonable too! No one should be expected to not eat or drink, have a few minutes to collect oneself and not visit the loo...

Good luck. Hth. X

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

Sal the 1st — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 21:47:52 GMT

[quote user="apache"]

The nature of emergency work makes planned breaks almost impossible.

[/quote]

Agreed - which is why I said I couldn't recall a set break. I usually took sandwiches and nearly always found time to feed my face even if it was on the run. Ok its not ideal but its the way it is. If you want routine avoid doing nights - it is very very rare that these places have enough staff to get a full break in.

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

r-more — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:21:27 GMT

If you work more than six hours, you are legally entitled to a minimum 20 minute break.

For Vets Now to admit that you shouldn’t expect a break, they’ve put themselves in very risky position.

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

Arlo Guthrie — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 18:48:49 GMT

[quote user="oconnoan"]I just wrote an entire post and its deleted? [/quote]

oconnoan how annoying, but it wasn't me! Can only think it didn't submit properly ...

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

oconnoan — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 18:26:31 GMT

[quote user="Vet nurse0000"]

So I am currently working as a night nurse In a very busy hospital. This is an issue I have encountered before. I don’t get a break or any chance to eat whilst working an 11hour overnight shift.

It leaves me feeling very ill. I just wondered is this an accepted thing with Ecc? No breaks? As I had an interview with vets now before and was told not to expect a break.

I just wondered where the law stands on this? I mean surely this can’t be right? Working until you feel faint isn’t right And can lead to fatigue and errors.

I feel bad for some reason for even questioning it! Sadly I am not a robot and need a break and food!

[/quote]

I just wrote an entire post and its deleted?

I cant believe your post says you 'feel bad'. You feel bad for not getting a legal entitlement to a break to eat and go to the toilet. You feel bad that your basic human rights aren't addressed. You feel bad for your company making you unwell. Please consult the law and take this up with your manager rather than "feeling bad", it's not you doing a favour for a friend, it's an employment contract potected by legal rights and entitlements

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

apache — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:36:26 GMT

The nature of emergency work makes planned breaks almost impossible. That said, even on the busiest day I've never struggled to get near enough to a kettle to make a coffee and grab a sandwich or something to eat, even if the time I had to get the food was the time the kettle took to boil.

If you are expecting an uninterrupted hour for 'lunch' then that's not realistic, but you are honestly saying you can't pop into the staff room for a drink and a bite to eat? What are you doing all night, every night? Offer to make the vet a coffee.

RE: No break whilst working ECC night shifts?

Sal the 1st — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:37:05 GMT

What are the staffing levels like. I stopped doing night work years ago because wherever I worked the staffing levels were to my mind dangerously low and might only be 1 vet, 1 nurse and an ACA on until 11pm to deal with anything that hit the door and telephone. Just manageable on a quiet night but blue murder on a busy one. It was generally grab what you can when you can, I don't recall any formal break as such.