Electric collars

RE: Electric collars

Sal the 1st — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:55:38 GMT

so in summary you haven't had to do something you didn't want to - owner was ok with that, boss was ok with that, and owner hasn't broken the law

RE: Electric collars

FINNIGAN — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:21:56 GMT

And we do dock puppies tails, we all have been given the option of choice if we want to attend or not. , so are thankfully respected in that, some of us do and some of us prefer not to

RE: Electric collars

FINNIGAN — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:19:32 GMT

I didn’t refuse I told her I wasn’t comfortable with doing what she had asked, she was ok with my decision and my boss was fine too

RE: Electric collars

FINNIGAN — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:16:46 GMT

I doubt it as they are not illegal yet

RE: Electric collars

Sierra Bravo — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 13:35:30 GMT

Oh ok, thanks! ... still not good though, most owners aren't quick enough to press it so dog won't learn why it's been told off and will also end up associating the owner being angry with the shock!

RE: Electric collars

PJ Zurawel — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:10:23 GMT

[quote user="Sierra Bravo"]Electric fences will stop an animal going towards the fence. A dog with an electric collar will be shocked when it runs outside the boundaries and then if it does decide to come back in I'm pretty sure they'd get another shock, therefore, punishing them for going back.[/quote]

I think this depends on the collar, the ones I've seen are operated by a button by the owner whenever the dog does something 'inappropriate'.

RE: Electric collars

Sierra Bravo — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:43:08 GMT

Electric fences will stop an animal going towards the fence. A dog with an electric collar will be shocked when it runs outside the boundaries and then if it does decide to come back in I'm pretty sure they'd get another shock, therefore, punishing them for going back.

RE: Electric collars

Sal the 1st — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 21:51:00 GMT

[quote user="apache"]

I know a number of dogs that are alive now because of them, one ran away and one chased sheep.

[/quote]

I have seen them used with a dog that was a sheep and chicken chaser and yes it was very effective and has stopped the dog having the same ending as its predecessor ie shot for attacking sheep. I honestly can't make my mind up if the owners of this dog are lazy or just plain thick - townies living in a village - you can't just chuck the dog out for a pee in a garden with inadequate fencing and expect it to come back without noticing a field full of in lamb ewes just across the road. Geofencing has worked in this case, but has taken quite a long time, has cost a lot of money - in equipment and sheep and to quote the farmer (heavily edited to remove most of the swear words) - would have been quicker if I tasered the bloody owners every time they let dog out they would of got the message sooner or buggered off and took the dog with them

I do agree that it should be a practice policy of what is and isn't done and not left to an individual to make the decision on behalf of the practice but have also been in some tricky situations myself where something just didn't sit right with me. Maybe I wouldn't have sent them away completely but asked somebody else in the practice to see them.

RE: Electric collars

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:51:57 GMT

"Do we ban electric fences next? Slip leads?"

- False equivalence. Do we bring back hanging? Limb amputation for petty theft? Different arguments.

Wondering why you disagree with my post but not the one above.. Sometimes I wonder if people see who the post is from then just click the disagree button!

RE: Electric collars

apache — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:41:54 GMT

Not getting dragged into this but I believe there is a valid counter argument in specific circumstances. They have a place IMO.

Do we ban electric fences next? Slip leads?

RE: Electric collars

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 19:43:44 GMT

..And just because dogs are alive *thanks to* electric collars - means nothing. A dead dog doesn't know it's dead. A living dog that is being dealt electric shocks certainly does know about it, and remembers. To must of us, this is repugnant.

Ans so what if the best behaved dogs are ones that have trained using these methods? Maybe the best behaved children are ones that are beaten or caned. If someone suggested I should do that to my kid, I would knock their block off.

No, electric collars have no place whatsoever. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of veterinary professionals seem to be in agreement on this.

RE: Electric collars

Ben Ogden — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:52:56 GMT

[quote user="apache"]

[quote user="PJ Zurawel"]If she is going ahead and clipping the area in order to use the collar can she be reported to the RSPCA??

[/quote]

Not at the moment as they are legal to use in England.

I find myself torn when discussing them because I think a lot of people use them because they are lazy, but personally I believe they have a place. I know a number of dogs that are alive now because of them, one ran away and one chased sheep. All the positive training in the world wasn't helping them.

I'd like to see them only being used by licenced operatives and not freely available.

It's interesting that the aversive training is out of favour and yet the best behaved dogs we deal with are woking dogs generally trained using those methods.

I'd expect one of my staff to discuss this with me as the boss rather than sending them away. We dock puppies, what if one of my staff was against that?

[/quote]

It's a welfare issue. If you cannot train a dog without sending volts of electricity into it, perhaps a re-think on your ownership capabilities need reviewing. There are plenty of training aids and methods out there that don't involve discomfort to the animal. Veterinary Professionals are advocates for animal welfare, what message are we sending out if members are advocating these methods?

Aversion training is out of favour because it has been historically over used, misunderstood and applied inappropriately. As a training method it has it's place under the supervision of somebody qualified, but electric collars do not, hence why the law is changing.

As for tail docking we're comparing oranges to lemons.

RE: Electric collars

apache — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:32:07 GMT

[quote user="PJ Zurawel"]If she is going ahead and clipping the area in order to use the collar can she be reported to the RSPCA??

[/quote]

Not at the moment as they are legal to use in England.

I'd like to see them only being used by licenced operatives and not freely available.

It's interesting that the aversive training is out of favour and yet the best behaved dogs we deal with are woking dogs generally trained using those methods.

I'd expect one of my staff to discuss this with me as the boss rather than sending them away. We dock puppies, what if one of my staff was against that?

RE: Electric collars

PJ Zurawel — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:13:58 GMT

If she is going ahead and clipping the area in order to use the collar can she be reported to the RSPCA??

RE: Electric collars

FINNIGAN — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 11:27:55 GMT

She’s now going to buy her own clippers from Argos and do it herself

RE: Electric collars

FINNIGAN — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 11:26:57 GMT

She is one of our clients, no set up

RE: Electric collars

Sal the 1st — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 21:04:05 GMT

bit of a daft question but why did they appear at a vets and not a groomer/clippers? Maybe they had been refused elsewhere or maybe this was a set up?

RE: Electric collars

FINNIGAN — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 20:31:42 GMT

Thanks guys,

RE: Electric collars

Ben Ogden — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:01:57 GMT

There is too much data that throws out using this level of Aversive Therapy. Your boss would be in the wrong to discipline such an action. Had a client (American) come in with his dog wearing a prong collar.... He didn't leave with the collar, thats for sure!

RE: Electric collars

PJ Zurawel — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:26:27 GMT

Couldn't agree more!!!!! They are cruel and sort of sure that a ban has been issued recently?? Or at least in the pipeline. If your boss has a go out I vote you put one on them and shock them every time they open their mouth and see how they like it! The owner should be using effective and suitable training for their dog so as far as I am concerned you gave the correct advice for the welfare of the poor dog.

Edit: just found this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45320038

RE: Electric collars

Mog Coops — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 10:31:46 GMT

I would have held your coat for you. Electric collars are not a substitute for effective training. I would fully back up any staff member for that refusal.