Gas chamber/mask induction vs Injectables..HELP!

RE: Gas chamber/mask induction vs Injectables..HELP!

Liv — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 14:00:05 GMT

Thank you for your replies. I appreciate it. I will have a look at the drug suggestions and see if i can mention them in work. We dont currently stock ketamine (not sure why, as is fairly cheap), but yes my old clinic used to use DTK in cats etc and practically no gas anaesthesia.

I am reassured to hear that someone else is finding it hard to adapt to gassing and its not just me! I just cant understand why the young vets dont also see from this perspective and feel that gassing is appropriate. Ok i get that they recover very quickly, but just seems so dated when there are other options.

Again also from coming from clinics that are very minimal restraint and low stress handling on cats, it just doesnt sit well with me and when i see that gas chamber come out i really want to cry :(

Anyway i guess i am letting my feelings get in the way too much...and yes i agree with that dangerous statement 'we have always done it that way'. Another one i heard in a clinic once when asking if we can monitor the BP under GA of a senior cat - the response was no because it will make me worry too much

RE: Gas chamber/mask induction vs Injectables..HELP!

jo wynn — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 07:01:22 GMT

Hi,

Ive just moved from a practice that used triple combo, diazepam, midazilam, ketamine, propofol.... crush cage , towels and cat muzzles to a practice that gasses down cats and other patients.

Ive found it very difficult to adapt to. Their reason was short acting, quick, reliable and have been doing it for years.

We asked if we could trial an injectable method for 1 month, recording all vital signs, maybe you could suggest that.

Get the drugs reps in to give lunch and learns and talk about sedations, anaesthetics.

The most dangerous statement in veterinary medicine... *we have always done it this way*

RE: Gas chamber/mask induction vs Injectables..HELP!

Andrea — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:10:01 GMT

Again, I'm no anaesthetic whizz but agree 'gassing down' is a bit dark ages / h&s issue / not great for the patient.

what about something along the lines of diazepam injection? I know ideally it should go i/v (but can go i/m) so may not be ideal with fractious animals. But could just help take the edge off?

or even TIVA (total intravenous anaesthesia)? I have worked with a vet who gave an iv of propfol to cat castrates and it worked long enough to for nurse to prep while he scrubbed, castrate the cat and get it into kennels for recovery (interestingly an Australian vet btw!). They tended to recover pretty well. Would this give enough time to exam mouth? You can always top up if they get a bit light.

I believe alfaxalone is also good for this, although I have no personal experience of this.

Domitor is a bit of a love or hate drug I tend to find, practices either like it or they don't.

Sorry I don't have any protocols to hand, good luck!

RE: Gas chamber/mask induction vs Injectables..HELP!

steph fursland — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 17:00:22 GMT

Not an anaesthetic whiz I'm afraid but I agree with you, if you are using isofluorane to gas down, it stings the mucus membranes, and the animals get very stressed about the weird sensation of it. If you use canister oxygen it's also not really that economical, surely?

Plus I would point out that wafting around a load of isofluorane in a work place that has probably got a lot of 'women of childbearing age' isn't really ideal, and it gives some people migraines!

I use the following:

Dogs - medetomidine and butorphanol, 0.1ml of each per 10kg of dog, given IV. This can be reversed with atipamezole so recovery is very quick. This is a lower dose than is found on the data sheet but it is enough to drop most dogs and you get less scary heart rates. Although medetomidine does lower the heart rate, remember you get a compensatory vasoconstriction (that's why they go so white) so it's slightly less scary than it looks (I panic when the heart rate in a medium dog is below 40). Plus it is reversible so if you get into trouble you can undo it.

Cats - I am a big ketamine fan I'm afraid, I use diazepam/ketamine for sick cats (can be IV or IM) and a triple (medetomidine/butorphanol/ketamine given IM) for well cats.

The other thing that might be considered is getting some lidocaine, as you can get away with like stitch ups, skin biopsies, grass seeds in the foot etc with a much reduced sedation if you use local anaesthetic.