bitch spay premeds

Re: bitch spay premeds

jules007 — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:34:27 GMT

thanks Lou. I would love to use ketamine as I understand it's got good analgesic properties but none of us have any experience of its use in dogs. What sort of doses do you use and how do you administer it?

Re: bitch spay premeds

Louise O'Dwyer — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:39:20 GMT

We use partial agonists, ie. buprenorphine as standard for neuters, but also combine it with a NSAID (unless contraindicated) and I personally use ketamine as its a NMDA antagonist and another excellent analgesic

Lou x

Re: bitch spay premeds

jules007 — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:31:07 GMT

thanks for that. I'm keen on changing to methadone - we currently use vetergesic, but I do think ovariohysterectomy warrants a pure opioid. The amount of pain felt by the patient is related to other things such as skill and speed of surgeon, but either way I think methadone is the way forward.

Re: bitch spay premeds

NuttyNu — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 17:04:57 GMT

we use comfortan (Methedone) at usually 0.3mg/kg. and ACP which varies dependant on how old the dog is as to whetehr we go low or normal dose. (0.01mg/kg is low... think 0.02 or 0.03mg/kg is our normal dose (We have a printed sheet at work with doses on!)

We then give Metacam S/C on recovery.

Some will have a top up of vetergesic after methadone has worked off and will then go home on 2 days of metacam.

We previously used acp/vetergesic but changed about 2years ago and was a big difference... Much less iso needed... and a much better anaesthetic and stable patient and also a better recovery - less howling!

Re: bitch spay premeds

Sophie Bedford RVN CertVNECC — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:05:09 GMT

We have found that hypothermia plays a big part too - even on heat mat with towels they are still hypothermic and often need additional heat pads etc in kennels area. Interestingly we have also got access to Sevoflo which we have found has much quicker recovery times, could it be that the iso towards the end of the op isn't being reduced enough and so they are deeper for longer than needed?

Re: bitch spay premeds

A-J — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:14:01 GMT

you probably do, but worth checking their tempm post op. I do nights and the inpatients from the day practice which are still flat and groggy are often hypothermic.

Re: bitch spay premeds

jules007 — Sun, 23 Sep 2012 17:55:22 GMT

yes, im suprised torb is used so widely as an analgesic for an intra-abdominal procedure, but that suggests that the experience and speed of the surgeon plays a very siginificant role in post op recovery- much more than I had initially thought before posting this. We use methadone a fair amount for other procedures and although it can cause a bit of bradycardia/bradypnoea you at least feel like your giving them some decent pain relief - would definitely recommend it. Good for CRI's too.

Re: bitch spay premeds

Chippet — Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:07:38 GMT

I am a strong believer that a long anaesthetic leads to a poor recovery. Different vets use different drugs at my practice, so you do see the difference. One experienced vet uses ACP/Torb, the bitches are out for 20mins and come round very well. However we have recently had new graduates doing spays in 1.5 hours with ACP/vetergesic and they've come round badly. I would prefer to use vetergesic routinely, but you can't change old habits... The strongest pain relief we've got is Pethidine, which I hate cos it's too short acting, would prefer to get Methadone in.

Re: bitch spay premeds

jules007 — Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:53:56 GMT

thanks everyone. It's really interesting to see the variety of premeds used. We use acp and high dose buprenorphine but recently we've had a number having bad GA's and slow recoveries which I'm convinced are pain-related. It can take a bit of arm twisting to get the vets to top-up with methadone but I do wonder if we shouldn;t be using that to start with. Although some of these dogs have been on the table for longer than average - up to a couple of hours which probably doesn't help.

If your using methadone, what dose are you using for the premed?

Re: bitch spay premeds

Bouteloua — Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:28:58 GMT

I'm in the US. We use hydromorphone at 0.1mg/kg and a tiny bit of acepromazine at 0.003/kg on young healthy puppies. Adult healthy dogs might receive a little more ace up to 0.010mg/kg. They are sent home with carprofen tablets at 4mg/kg daily for several days. We've had very good success with this regimen. Of course we try and taylor our anesthesia on the patient's condition.

Here's a good website for anesthesia and analgesia. http://vasg.org/

Re: bitch spay premeds

GremlinNurse — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 19:25:38 GMT

Methadone/ACP routinely or Methadone/Medetomidine if the bitch is aggressive/bouncy/timid.

We aim to get them pain scored before they go home, some get a Burprenorphine top up if the vet thinks they need it.

Seems to work very well, I think I'd want some strong analgesia if I was being spayed!

Our cats spays get methadone/medetomidine and cat castrates get buprenorphine/medetomidine :)

Re: bitch spay premeds

paula morgan — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:18:13 GMT

we use calmivet/morphine i/m metacam s/c then buprenorphine 6 hours laetr, home with meatacam x

Re: bitch spay premeds

Julie-Anne Wilson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:15:10 GMT

ACP/Vetergesic, works well in most cases.

Re: bitch spay premeds

Jo Oakden — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:10:46 GMT

Find ACP and Buprenorphine at its higher dose works very well, with NSAIDS given pre-operatively.

Re: bitch spay premeds

shelly jefferies — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:38:54 GMT

we use either acp/torbugesic or acp/vetergesic for premed then metacam - most seem fine

Re: bitch spay premeds

Charmaloo88 — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:19:30 GMT

We actually use Dom/Torb pre med and nSAIDS for pain relief, find this works really well. However did work in a practice that used Buprenorphine/ACP (don't think you can get injectable anymore!) and covered with Methadone for pain relief. Think you just have to judge your patients response, it is a major procedure and obviously painful but I've found they recover just fine with nSAIDS!