Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

Paulette — Sat, 21 Jul 2012 10:52:12 GMT

forgot to mention we often have someone holding end of circuit over rabbit's nose for free flow 02 during intubation :)

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

Paulette — Sat, 21 Jul 2012 10:50:39 GMT

Hello, I have seen many different ways which all seemed to work fine (including some mentioned above) the place I am currently locuming at uses the best combo I have seen so far. marginal ear vein cannula, pre-02 in 02 box approx 5 mins (although be careful not to induce anaethesia as soon as removed from box as we sometimes find the sudden change in atmosphere and then introducing drugs can make some periodically cyanotic), flush i/v with saline only (and we do periop boluses), dom/torb/ket i/v (only approx half to 2/3 cocktail initially (be sure to be listening to their heart pre and the whole time with stethoscope), intubate - we use a clear (obv uncuffed) tube so that you can see the condensation of each breath, this really really aids intubation. the nurse uses a tie under the top incisors to open the jaw and supports/holds head and neck up similar to a cat, I use my (left) thumb to support back of skull and rest of my fingers to support rest of head. we used to have one nurse holding bottom incisors with a tie and the pouch dilators in and a light aswell till the vet got used to tubing rabbits but now we don't need them at all and she's really quick! at first she used to 'have to be able to see it' like a cat but we find now you don't have to 'look in' as the condensation on the tube will tell you where you are and with experience she can hear/feel it. but one vet does the drop technique (no nurse assistance required) which seems to take A LOT longer!) normally a clear size 3.0 is suitable. now the vet is experienced it is rare that we need a 2.5 and a lot of our rabbits are in for neutering so fairly young. 2.0 tend to be very bendy and difficult (we don't use stylets here but that's another option i think) some of the larger/giant rabbits take a clear 3.5 (they are not thick lined like the orange rubber ones, they are smooth thin plastic so don't seem as big as it sounds!). we used to use a little intubeaze but as a previous poster mentioned they need to be fully asleep to be intubated. never intubate when they are reacting. if required the vet will give a little more of the dom/torb/ket as like i said we only give half to 2/3 to start with. once intubated we assess if they need gas (pref sevo) straight away or just oxygen (although as we all know rabbits tend to need higher %s for surgery so don't let them get too light!!!) most need gas straight away as become a little light with tubing and not had full dom/torb/ket and then we take the remainder of the d/t/ket into theatre as some need the rest at first incision/during surgery. don't forget if only had 2/3 dom only give 2/3 anti.

Also please remember rabbit's chests need to be raised during anaesthesia (I didn't know till I worked at this practice) re diaphragms (most of ours are in dorsal/trough as in for neutering) so normally rolled/folded towel under chests work well and sometimes have to hold chin back depending on size of rabbit. we used to have someone holding tube/circuit the whole time but now have found VERY handy curling iron stand that holds the tube/circuits tubes beautifully in position! does mean the forelegs can flop down in the way sometimes so sometimes ties these. Sorry was very long winded-hope it helps!!! :)

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

jane Lewis — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 18:27:50 GMT

Thankyou everyone for your comments so far. We are lucky enough to have a capnograph machine, I hace looked at these tubes before but I think the concensus was it was too much of a cost outlay. I may try asking again :) (it cant hurt!).Thanks again x

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

Anna Cameron RVN — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:40:25 GMT

At the practice I work at we use Hypnorm on rabbits for pre-med purposes and it works very well.

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

Sophie Bedford RVN CertVNECC — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 15:59:44 GMT

We didn't have a capnograph either, what we've done is get the capnograph and for operations we charge an "advanced anaesthesia" charge which helps to cover the cost of the v-gel and capnograph and make a small profit. It does mean you need to outlay for the capnograph initally but I think it's worth it! Then you will also have the capnograph available for all your procedures going forward.

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

Gemma Burden RVN — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 15:46:05 GMT

I had a look at these at BSAVA congress and they look really good, although they wouldn't be cheap to change to as we don't currently have a capnograph.

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

Sophie Bedford RVN CertVNECC — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 15:19:47 GMT

Hi - we have two rabbit specialists working in our practice and they both use dom/ket and it works fine. One of the vets has also invented new technology for tubing, they are tubes that seal over and around the larynx so they don't cause any trauma to the larynx itself or the trachea. They are exceptionally easy to place, I put a cat tube in in 2 seconds and the rabbits are the same.

One great thing about them is that you just clean them in hibi and they are fully autoclavable!!

The link for the website is: http://docsinnovent.com/products/product/rabbit-v-gel

You can buy them through the website which is the cheapest way and if you need any further information then please PM me with you contact details and I can pass them on to our vet who can call you to discuss any questions etc.

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

Gemma Burden RVN — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:17:42 GMT

In my practice we use medetomidine, butorphanol and ketamine for our rabbits injected I/M. The key to being able to intubate them does seem to be having them anaesthetised deeply enough to start with otherwise you encounter problems. After injecting the rabbits we given them at least 10 minutes before trying to tube them (at one lecture I went to, I think Anna Meredith was the speaker they were suggesting to leave them even longer before even moving them). Once the rabbits have gone down we give them oxygen via a mask to ensure that they are well oxygenated before tubing.
Personally I really don't like masking rabbits down, we used to do this in my previous practice and aside from the issues with breathe holding we used to have problems sometimes with them panicing, which could lead to complications late in the anaesthetic.

Re: Rabbit Anaesthesia and tubing

alison perfect — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:11:34 GMT

In my old practice we used to dom/ket then tube but the vets did have problems tubing which seemed to take longer than the actual surgery would have. At my current practice we gas down and then keep on the mask.

I would prefer it if we tubed but our vets are not keen.