SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

bongo — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:38:44 GMT

[quote user="Angiy Michael"]

The RCVS guidelines are NOT vague when it comes to anaesthesia given "to effect" ..if someone is giving anaesthesia to effect or incrementally that someone can legally ONLY be a vet. Giving boluses ie a set dose in one go with no variation applied regardless of the effect or for example triple combination ( also a bolus technically) can be administered by a listed or registered nurse at the direction of a veterinary surgeon and a student ( who must be enrolled with the RCVS) under the direct ( ie physical) and constant supervision of an LVN/RVN or Vet....I am comfortable with qualifieds giving bolus anaesthesia..I am less comfortable with students doing so..as for what your student is doing..it is illegal..it could get your vets in major trouble and potentially could endanger tthe students training as I suspect the RCVS would take a very dim view of a student breaking the law like this..although the onus of responsibility would land on the vets who are allowing this to happen X

[/quote]

here, here!

Induction is probably the most dangerous time for anaesthetising patients and if something went wrong the vet would be up the creek without a paddle. Also it cant be in the NPL because it is ILLEGAL!

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

Katie Mansfield — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:50:12 GMT

Does this also mean for sedation? I've never seen a nurse do that either - I'm just curious about the RCVS stand on it.

(PS, SVN, who's still to nervy to even monitor a GA, let alone induce one!!!)

K x

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

Louise Dick — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:32:14 GMT

Completely agree, not even the most experienced RVNs in our practice induce anaesthesia, we ALWAYS wait for an available vet to knock out animals, and I'm pretty sure that it is not a requirement for the student portfolio (or whatever its called at the moment!).

Louise

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

emvn80 — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:56:48 GMT

I agree with Angiy...This is definitely an area where the RCVS are VERY clear on. A set dose of a drug may be administered by a RVN or SVN under the direction of a vet, (ie a triple combination IM, or a set medetomidine dose iv) but nurses (irrespective of whether they are a VN, RVN or SVN) cannot adminster induction agents to effect. This can only be done by a vet as it must be the vet who decides the dose, and when enough has been given.

In my opinion it is dangerous for vets to tell nurses to give a set dose of propofol or alfaxalone for induction as the drugs should be given to effect and some dogs/cats require much less or much more than the data sheet doses.

The student definitely doesn't need to adminster induction agents to effect for their NPL although may need to adminster set doses of drugs to induce anaesthesia (ie triple combination).

The RCVS guidelines on anaesthesia can be read here, http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/advice-notes/

Below is an extract...

a) Inducing anaesthesia by administration of specific quantity of medicine

directed by a veterinary surgeon may be carried out by a veterinary nurse

1 or,
with supervision, a student veterinary nurse

2, but not any other person.
b) Administering medicine incrementally or to effect, to induce and maintain

anaesthesia may be carried out only by a veterinary surgeon.

c) Maintaining anaesthesia is the responsibility of a veterinary surgeon, but a

suitably trained person may assist by acting as the veterinary surgeon’s hands

(to provide assistance which does not involve practising veterinary surgery), for

example, by moving dials.

d) Monitoring a patient during anaesthesia and the recovery period is the

responsibility of the veterinary surgeon, but may be carried out on his or her

behalf by a suitably trained person.

e) The most suitable person to assist a veterinary surgeon to monitor and

maintain anaesthesia is a veterinary nurse

1 or, under supervision, a student
veterinary nurse

2.

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

Angiy Michael — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:40:22 GMT

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

Tanya Traill — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:46:53 GMT

I,m a student veterinary nurse and I dont need it for me NPL and I would never dream of asking to do that. Its a vets job not a student nurses job. I,m surprised your work let her do it.

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

A-J — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:38:19 GMT

one of those 'grey' areas. I understand it as being under the direction of a vs. However my vet says that if the patient crashed on induction that she would hate for the nurse to feel responsible so therefore we as nurses dont induce. In another practice the nurses induced patients ready for the vet who was already in surgery

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

Vicky RVN — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:23:35 GMT

I think it's in the RCVS guidelines isn't it, that a nurse shouldn't induce anaesthesia? I'd explain that to the student.

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

hannah20 — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:19:15 GMT

I do completley agree with Vicky, apparently the RVC guidlines are rather vague but I think it is a vets job and shouldnt be performed by a nurse, let alone a student. We use alfaxan

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

Vicky RVN — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:57:20 GMT

I assume you're using propofol?

Re: SHOULD STUDENT NURSES BE ALLOWED TO ANAESTHETISE ANIMALS?

Vicky RVN — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:56:55 GMT

Neither SVN or QVN should be doing this. Anaesthesia to effect should be given by a VS.