daily fluid requirements

Re: daily fluid requirements

daisy — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:59:24 GMT

some very interesting points raised and i thank you all for your input (thats why i love this forum) i am going to research this more deeply

Re: daily fluid requirements

Steph Worsley — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:12:09 GMT

[quote user="Robocop"]

I completely agree with you Steph. Interestingly it was a vet teaching the course, and I've never practiced it.

Also does anyone increase the cats IVFT to 60ml/kg/day. A couple of nurses who I work with, who went to the London Vet show and said that, that was they were taught this, and to reduce larger dogs to 40ml/kg/day, I'm unsure of the exact details though.

Once again, we have not put it into practice and we still use 50ml/kg/day, as this is what we were taught as VN's

[/quote]

I think that the alteration regarding to size is what Dechra are suggesting although not sure what this is based on.

I think that using 50ml/kg/day is a good all round calculation as it is smack bang int he middle lol

Re: daily fluid requirements

Robocop — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:05:47 GMT

I completely agree with you Steph. Interestingly it was a vet teaching the course, and I've never practiced it.

Once again, we have not put it into practice and we still use 50ml/kg/day, as this is what we were taught as VN's

Re: daily fluid requirements

Steph Worsley — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:47:10 GMT

[quote user="Robocop"]

I attended the Improve International A&CC course in 2009, and we were taught that, that calculation (30 x BW + 70) was appropriate for IVFT, as it was more accurate for the patients.

I cannot remember if it was a paper that was written, if it is done in another country or where she got the information from, but that was what we were told. So maybe you should ask where he got the information from, and to remind them that its not what VN's are taught.

Also I have never used that calculation in practice, as I think its unfair the students, as they learn the 50ml/kg calculation and it would be too confusing, so I have no experience in it.

May be worth researching it though, might be something in it.

[/quote]

Sorry but I think it's quite scary that this has been taught at a CPD course, it works out roughly the same for a smallish creature:

5kg beast
Using the vets "calculation"
30 x 5+70 = 220 mls/day
Using the calculation that all nurses and vet students are taught
5x50 = 250mls/day

However for a 10kg dog

30x10+70 = 370mls/day OR
10 x 50 = 500mls/day
So a difference of 130mls a day

Even worse for our larger dogs 30kg for example
30x30+70 = 970mls/day
30x50 = 1500mls/day
a difference of 530mls/ day over a third less than the actual requirement!!!!!

I know where I am the vet students are taught 50ml/kg/day or 2ml/kg/hr and on the dechra fluid therapy calculator it's worked out the same (just checked!) and it's on this basis IVFT is worked out and also to ensure that the patient is either drinking enough or is polydipsic.

Re: daily fluid requirements

Robocop — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:29:57 GMT

I attended the Improve International A&CC course in 2009, and we were taught that, that calculation (30 x BW + 70) was appropriate for IVFT, as it was more accurate for the patients.

Also I have never used that calculation in practice, as I think its unfair the students, as they learn the 50ml/kg calculation and it would be too confusing, so I have no experience in it.

May be worth researching it though, might be something in it.

Re: daily fluid requirements

Kim — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 19:22:29 GMT

Within the syabullas the latter calculation is indeed the BER nutrional formula for patients of 5kg. So you are right to say something to your vet. I would suggest taking in a text book with the calculation. He may have just got confused, vets have to know a lot of different formuals, it's not suprising they may forget some of them LOL. Sorry that was me sticking up for the vet TeeHee..... I don't think he will be offended if you say something, we are all professionals.

Re: daily fluid requirements

Roseann21 — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:28:45 GMT

[quote user="Laura Mackay"]

Daisy - I agree with the others.

Rose - Jaimin uses that saying all the time!

[/quote]

Laura - that's because I told him the joke....

Re: daily fluid requirements

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:00:59 GMT

[quote user="Rose Roche"]Which reminds me of a joke (told to me by a vet)..... "What's the difference between God and a vet?"....... "God doesn't think he's a vet"...[/quote]

Re: daily fluid requirements

lskm 23 — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:20:29 GMT

Daisy - I agree with the others.

Rose - Jaimin uses that saying all the time!

Re: daily fluid requirements

Roseann21 — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:30:04 GMT

[quote user="daisy"]

thanks but how do i question this when he is the senior vet who thinks hes god???

[/quote]

Which reminds me of a joke (told to me by a vet)..... "What's the difference between God and a vet?"....... "God doesn't think he's a vet"...

Re: daily fluid requirements

kerrywilliams2007 — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:49:01 GMT

isnt that BER??

try not to be too smug when you point it out

Re: daily fluid requirements

Steph Worsley — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:36:38 GMT

LOL can you tell I've done that sort of thing before!!

Re: daily fluid requirements

daisy — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:40:14 GMT

very diplomatic steph i love it and yes thats the approach i will use :-D

Re: daily fluid requirements

Steph Worsley — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:25:16 GMT

i'd just approach him and say that due to his comment it got you thinking and wanted to see where you got your calculation from and have found that these are the calculations you found in notes/textbooks/online

Re: daily fluid requirements

daisy — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:09:57 GMT

thanks but how do i question this when he is the senior vet who thinks hes god???

Re: daily fluid requirements

kitten — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:02:42 GMT

I am with u. The vet is wrong. X

Re: daily fluid requirements

Steph Worsley — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:53:30 GMT

you are correct and your senior vet is wrong

daily fluid intake is 50ml/kg/24h or 2ml/kg/hr works out roughly the same

30xbw+70 os the nutritional calculation for BER for animals over 5kg, under 5kg is 60xBW