Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Chris Geddes — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:00:42 GMT

Hi Molladog. Looks like you worked out how to PM - got your address and will ask for one to be sent along.

Best wishes

Chris

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

molladog — Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:51:48 GMT

Hi, please can I have a copy, not sure how to pm you as not very 'techy' !! lol

If so I will reply with my address.

Thanks

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Chris Geddes — Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:07:21 GMT

Thank you Claire. Without this turning into a sycophancy contest, I agree with everything you said!

Unfortunately I won't be at congress but I have plenty of colleagues on the stand who would be more than happy to chat to anyone interested, and anyone who isn't attending congress can always ask their local Virbac territory manager for a "lunch and learn" meeting on oral hygiene for their practice, phone our technical team with any enquiries (01359 243 243), contact our office for support materials (posters, leaflets, counter display unit - same number), etc.

I have a limited number of copies of John Robinson's excellent book on dentistry - "Everyday dentistry for the dog and cat" - if anyone is interested, PM me with your address and I'll send one along if I have one left!

Don't forget Lisa Milella's fantastic free webinar on periodontal disease too - available at www.thewebinarvet.com/virbac-webinars - and you can print a certificate off afterwards too :)

Cheers

Chris

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Claire Bloor — Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:45:20 GMT

Some fantastic advice there from Chris :-)

Few other things...

It's the bristles on a toothbrush sweeping out the gingival sulcus that removes the plaque bacteria from the place it does the most damage - toothpaste of whatever variety encourages aminal compliance with brushing above and beyond anything else. Would you like to brush your teeth with just water and your brush?
Some toothpastes obviously do have some added benefits, which do make you think one is better than another (along with marketing/advertising), but the point is that a toothbrush is needed.
If you get a build up of tartar/calculus on your animal's teeth even when you are brushing, I'm afraid you need to work on your technique :-) If you're effectively removing the plaque bacteria SID or BID you should not have anything there to turn into calculus!
If your clients cannot brush their animal's teeth, they can use chlorhexidine digluconate 0.18 - 0.2% BID (liquid varieties tend to coat the teeth better than trying to wipe gels on there!) will do a grand job at keeping oral bacteria to a minimum.

And...

There are loads of other things out there on the market to help maintain oral health, and all have their place and uses, but it is your responsibility as an RVN to ascertain exactly what the patient needs, what the patient will tolerate and what the owner is capable of/willing to do with regards to an oral home care program.
You can do this very effectively through a well designed, conducted and managed dental clinic...they are actually very rewarding when you do them right!!! And the clients really do appreciate all of your time and efforts (in most circumstances!)

If you have any more questions please do not hesitate to contact me: cbloor@myerscough.ac.uk. And go and have a chat to Chris on the Virbac stand at congress and actually have a good look at all of the products available. You will see different possibilities for oral home care regimes materialise in front of your eyes!

Cheers

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Chris Geddes — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:27:22 GMT

Oops sorry guys. I have just noticed quite a few questions for me here which I have missed so I'll do my best to answer now. I say do my best as a. it's Sunday and b. I won't be in the office for a couple of months as I had an operation last week, so don't have much data to hand so it'll have to be off the top of my head!

However...

1. Parodongyl

I can confirm that Parodongyl has been permanently discontinued. I am as upset about this as anyone, believe me, but there is nothing we can do. First of all we moved production facilities and the new production facility couldn't make it to the standards we were happy with: it worked perfectly well, but it was too runny for client satisfaction. Then some European legislation came in which prevented the incorporation of chlorhexidine in a foodstuff (which toothpaste in dogs technically is as they tend to swallow it!). so we had to scrap it anyway. Sorry. All I can say is, if you want to brush dogs' and cats' teeth and have the benefits of CHX (e..g. in the perioperative period), you can saturate the bristles of the toothbrush with Hexarinse (our CHX rinse) before brushing. Of course immediately post op the mouth may be too sore for brushing and you may just want to use Hexarinse alone, usually best done by dribbling in the mouth with a syringe.

2. Xylitol in Aquadent.

One of the most common questions we get is "isn't xylitol toxic to dogs?". Yes, it is, in high enough volumes. Xylitol is an artificial sweetener, and so is used in chewing gum. Bacteria are also fooled into thinking it is a sugar too, so take it up but then cannot use it for energy and it kills the bacteria, hence it has antibacterial properties. It has therefore been shown in many studies to have both anti-caries and anti-plaque activity in people (pubmed it if you're interested; the chewing gum ads don't lie!). It is also in some human mouthwashes for this purpose. Anyway, xylitol is in huge amounts in chewing gum, up to 1000mg last time I checked, with hypoglycaemia in dogs occurring at doses of around 100-150mg/kg. Primary liver failure occurs at doses of around 500mg/kg. Aquadent contains 5mg/ml xylitol....so....diluted at recommended levels, a dog would have to consume its own bodyweight in diluted solution within an hour before any toxicity occurred (even I cannot manage such volumes on the heaviest of Friday nights). Finally, it's worth pointing out that we have had Aquadent in the UK and many other countries for a number of years (I think 4 in the UK offhand) with no reports of toxicity - not surprising given the above!

The next obvious question people ask is "well surely at such low levels there is no effect". In fact there has been a published peer-reviewed study by a veterinary dentist in Australia on the efficacy of aquadent in slowing progression of periodontal disease. If anyone is interested, please message me and I shall ensure you get emailed a copy.

Julie-Ann - I'm sorry to hear you didn't see any efficacy -it's difficult for me to say why as I don't know the circumstances. The idea is to slow formation of plaque and tartar. If a dog has mild to severe periodontal disease, he will clearly need treatment such as a scale and polish. Aquadent can then be used post operatively to delay the recurrence of disease. As always, I'll say that brushing is best, but we all know that isn't always possible even in the most experienced of hands (never mind the average owner), which is why we provide Aquadent for those difficult cases.

If anyone has any further questions feel free to post below or PM me. Sorry for the long post but trying to answer everyone's questions!

Cheers

Chris

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Jill Macdonald — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 10:33:48 GMT

I use Nolvadent spray on my border (much to his disgust) - that's chlorhexidine, and thus helps to keep the oral bacteria at bay. I always lean towards enzymatic toothpastes as seem to have it in my head that they are more effective - if you miss bits brushing then the residual toothpase will do the rest etc.. I also manually scale (the buccal surfaces!) of my dog's teeth which I trained him to allow me to do from a puppy - as a border I'm sure he would have needed a GA and a D+P by now, but as it is he's 11 and his teeth are still good... Of course, not something you'd teach some clients to do, but I'm sure there's a lot out there who would manage it.

Alos, not mentioned here, but dental diets - how effective actually are they do we all think? How much 'research' has been done on actual dog's teeth (rather than a screwdriver with some tippex on it!)

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Julie-Anne Wilson — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:21:46 GMT

I thought Xylitol was a bad thing to give animals?

On another note, I used Aquadent for my dog and it made not one bit of difference. I don't think I'd ever recommend it to a client.

As a practice, we recommend Logic.

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

kitten — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 22:44:04 GMT

Hi Chris, can I ask what is the quantity of xylitol in aquadent?

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Anna Rayne — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 22:08:48 GMT

Is paradongyl toothpaste likely to be available again any time soon or has virbac stopped its manufacture permanently?

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Chris Geddes — Mon, 02 Jan 2012 21:52:47 GMT

Hi Zoe. You are absolutely right: there is not enough chlorhexidine in Vet Aquadent to have a benefit. In fact, it is only there as a preservative. In fact, the active in Vet Aquadent is xylitol, shown in human studies to have both anti-caries and anti-plaque activity. Plaque is a biofilm formed by bacteria, so substances that keep bacterial levels down do indeed slow plaque development. Since VA has been available, studies have proved its activity in animals too...if you're interested PM me your email address and I can send to you.

I have to agree that toothbrushing is the gold standard in maintenance of oral hygiene, and would aways suggest a client tries brushing if at all possible...but Vet Aquadent is there for those animals where toothbrushing is sadly not possible, like my parents' cat! I've even heard a specialist veterinary dentist admit that he can't brush his own cat's teeth so I don't feel too bad! Chews can also be used in cases where brushing is not possible, or in addition to brushing where it is,

Re brushing and toothpaste...again, you're right, theoretically brushing alone will give most of the benefit...but a major benefit is compliance. My dog gets quite excited when he sees me approaching with poultry flavour enzymatic toothpaste...I don't think he would be too keen on brushing if I did them without flavoured toothpaste! I'm not sure I would be too keen on brushing my own teeth without toothpaste either...in fact I believe that's why human toothpaste was invented...

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Zoe Davies RVN — Mon, 02 Jan 2012 07:09:05 GMT

i got told that the stuff in water does not have any benifits as not enough chlorhexadine in it . and lets not forget the only way to get rid of plque is to dislodge it with finger or tooth brush. the tooth paste is only an added extra to help with ginigvitits etc.

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Vicky RVN — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 23:41:32 GMT

Toothpaste wise I recommend either Logic Gel or Virbac Enzymatic. I'm not keen on the idea of putting things in animals water, I feel they should be drinking plain water not water with extra chemicals in it.

On the subject of shampoo....I give a big to Episoothe! When I first got Jack I used Neutrale, but his skin was so dry after use. I then got rid of that after a couple of uses and since then have been using Episoothe. I limit bathing with shampoo as much as possible to stop drying out his coat, but find Episoothe really good, He's so glossy and soft after! It's not cheap, but i've had him for 3 years and have only just started his second bottle, bath him once a month or so. So not bad value at all!

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Chris Geddes — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:56:00 GMT

Thank you for positive comments! Mrs Dotdot....Sebocalm is good all round shampoo but Episoothe and Allermyl especially are particularly recommended for "sensitive" skins... but then I'm sure you picked that up at the CPD! Actually I think the course first ran in 2008 and we did repeat it in 2010! Unfortunately demand isn't high enough to do them any more frequently...in fact it was a lot lower for the 2010 course...I think perhaps as pockets are tightening and even though it was free, practices are less willing to allow people time off for CPD :(

We did so a webinar this year on dentistry which you might like to view by visiting www.thewebinarvet.com/virbac-webinars .....other than that our free webinars have mainly been orientated towards vets, but you might like the others on topical therapy in dermatology for example.

Chris

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Nicola Smith — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:13:46 GMT

I use petdent gel whch is similar to logic ingredients wise I think. Always used to use enzymatic ut found despite daily use dog still getting small amt of tartar forming but dont get that with petdent. Palatability wise dog would prefer the enzymatic if he had his choice!

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Mrs Dot Dot — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 00:09:05 GMT

I prefer/ recommend Virbacs enzyme toothpaste... dogs like the taste... and I also love their sebocalm shampoo... sell loads to dogs with sensitive skins and pups especially. I also went on a great Virbac CPD a few years ago on nurse clinics, skins and dental... learnt alot and picked up some good tips.... you should repeat them!

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Sal the 1st — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:34:12 GMT

Not the best picture in the world but I think this demonstrates palatability pretty well!

toothpaste wise both of mine prefer the enzymatic - and the dental cpd I went to a couple of years ago mentioned a shorter effective contact time. ( and no we havnt been paid by Virbac to say that!)

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Chris Geddes — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 21:32:38 GMT

Hi all

I am the product manager for dental products at Virbac. If anyone has any questions on our range (including enzymatic toothpaste and Vet Aquadent!) feel free to private message me!

Chris

Re: Toothpaste - what do you recommend?

Mark Walsh — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 20:53:25 GMT

I would say both those two toothpastes are equally good. I prefer to recommend Aquadent which is like a mouth wash that you put a small amount into the water every day, many clients I meet are not keen on toothbrushing so this is much easier.