Calmex

Re: Calmex

Jo Oakden — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:07:47 GMT

We stock Calmex and have found it works really well for aggressive dogs that come into the practice. We have been able to vaccinate/clean ear etc of dogs who usually we are unable to get anywhere near. It is a neutraceutical, and only need one or two capsules an hour before the effect is required. These dogs would have required a full sedation for each of these procedures and now they have been able to come in calm, with the owners calm.

I can't really understand what the main problem is with Calmex from the thread - perhaps as the main ones are deleted so I suspect it got a bit heated!! We had a vetplus rep come and speak to us about it and explain how it works/whats in it and what it does.

Every drug has a risk, or a possible side effect. There are herbal supplements for humans that can't be used with certain medicines. I feel that if you use anything responsibly its benefits can outweigh the risks.

Re: Calmex

Wendy73 — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:04:13 GMT

Hi, just read this entire thread with interest (must have missed it first time round), as our practice has recently started stocking Calmex. We tried it as a last resort on a dog that bites his owners for no apparent reason and it seems to be helping, although it's early days.

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:12:59 GMT

Nothing from the VMD. I did contact my MP - will gee him up again, no harm in giving him something to do - thats what he is paid for.

As an aside has anybody else heard rumours circulating that the Waltham Mobility Support tabs are off the market not due to manufacturing issues but licensing? We had quite a few clients buying these and they have been out of stock for ages and we have no date for their return which is a shame as quite a few of our clients swore by them.

Re: Calmex

Honeybadger — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:18:11 GMT

Did we ever find out the outcome of this?

Re: Calmex

Steph Worsley — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:27:38 GMT

I think Sal like a lot of the rest of us want to know how the VMD actually think this drug should be classified in their humble opinion!

I don't think we have decided if it's safe or not but when there have been queries as to its safety on its own let alone alongside other drugs I think we have the right to know these things,

The huge problem with the whole "neutraceutical" thing is that they don't HAVE to go through clinical trials to prove efficacy and safety etc unlike all the other drugs out there.

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:27:23 GMT

I have not said this product is unsafe - what I am saying is that if this is a medicine it should have to conform to the same degree of testing and licensing safety measures as other medicines do, if it is a medicine it needs to be categorised and that as a veterinary nurse I need to know if I am supplying this product a) that it is safe and b) that I am legally able to supply it - and this applies to any product not just this one. I need to know with certainty that I am not breaking any laws and I need to know that this will not come back and bite me on the ass at a later date ie if a problem with this or any other product comes up in the future and a client comes back and says well you sold me it.

If it is a nutritional supplement then make it clear and sell it that way

Again sorry if you feel this is pedantic - and sorry if you dont find it interesting but hope you dont mind too much if some of us still do.

Re: Calmex

Tim Arnold — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:25:11 GMT

Why would you be worried about selling it though? You've clearly made up your mind that it is unsafe? There are plenty of alternatives!

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 10:20:16 GMT

The simple answer to that is to stop having the replies emailed to you if you arent interested. My interest in this is purely to get a definitive answer - using the Defra/VMD criteria is the product a medicine or a feed supplement and if it is a medicine has it been established using the criteria for a medicine that it is safe? Especially if I might end up to be the one selling the stuff. I am sorry you are finding this boring - there is plenty on here I find boring - but then I just dont get involved ( I have zero interest in hair straighteners believe it or not)

Re: Calmex

Tim Arnold — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 08:43:21 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

think its time I tried the powers that be for a progress report - and if that doesnt get me anywhere might just prod my MP a little (or maybe a lot)

[/quote] Isn't it time we let this drop? I understand people may be worried about the whole situation, but the fact that replies keep popping up in my email which either add nothing or just repeat what has already been said makes me think some people have a vested interest in all this? Are our MPs really going to be bothered with all this? To be honest, they've probably got a lot more urgent things to deal with!

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:12:16 GMT

yes it is interesting, I received an email of this letter following my enquiry to vetplus - over a month ago. Will be interesting to hear what the VMD have to say about the product

Re: Calmex

Sophie Bedford RVN CertVNECC — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:17:54 GMT

An interesting read!!

Re: Calmex

Emma Gerrard Dip AVN (SA) DipHe CVN BSc (Hons) CVN RVN KSQP RAM — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:06:56 GMT

www.vetnurse.co.uk/.../6685.vetpluscalmex-letter.pdf

Hi all,

I had this from my rep, thought you would like to read it.

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:03:23 GMT

awaiting reply from VMD - but thanks for the above

Re: Calmex

Emma Gerrard Dip AVN (SA) DipHe CVN BSc (Hons) CVN RVN KSQP RAM — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 14:40:12 GMT

my vetplus rep came to see me. VMD just asked them to change some wording in the calmex data sheet, no other problems or issues where raised by the VMD

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 23:39:59 GMT

think its time I tried the powers that be for a progress report - and if that doesnt get me anywhere might just prod my MP a little (or maybe a lot)

Re: Calmex

BengalcatRVN — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 00:26:45 GMT

I periodically look at this, have been keeping quiet but it is oftenon my mind thanks for the bumps sal!

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 00:32:58 GMT

still no news but just keeping it current

Re: Calmex

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:13:48 GMT

These things do take time. There are many similar cases that have been on-going for months, and sometimes years, before anything appears to change - so I wouldn't hold your breath ! Good to keep it alive though as often after people become aware of these issues, they forget them and things carry on as normal - Verm-X is a case in point if you want one !

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:27:05 GMT

just bumping this again and keeping it current - this is sure taking some time to reach a decision

Re: Calmex

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:05:41 GMT

I think the VMD takes a while to reach a conclusion. Weeks.

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:48:40 GMT

Has there been any decision on this yet?

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:51:27 GMT

so did all the people who I showed the links to - and they have nothing to do with veterinary practice.

The other point I didnt raise last night. If you look on the 1st link I supplied Calmex comes up on the same page as Clomicalm and ACP which both need prescription and doesnt appear at all on the nutritional supplements page

Re: Calmex

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:20:41 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]The first link mentions clinical trials - the blurb may not have been written by VetPlus but the owners of the site? - that I dont know? but wouldnt the mention of clinical trials imply to Joe Public that they are buying a medicine?- especially when on the home page it mentions that is run by vets.[/quote]

I rather tend to agree.

Re: Calmex

Sal the 1st — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:42:18 GMT

http://www.myvetmeds.co.uk/calmex-capsules-for-dogs.htm#product-ingredients

having read the entry for Calmex on the above link

and reading the Calmex leaflet produced by VetPlus themselves

http://www.vetplus.co.uk/PDF/LEAF/calmex_leaflet.pdf

The first link mentions clinical trials - the blurb may not have been written by VetPlus but the owners of the site? - that I dont know? but wouldnt the mention of clinical trials imply to Joe Public that they are buying a medicine?- especially when on the home page it mentions that is run by vets.

The second link where it says 'Where can I get Calmex' states that it is available from leading veterinary practices. Yes we know it is also available elsewhere but would the average client. Wouldnt that statement again imply to Joe Public that Calmex is a medicine if it is available from a veterinary surgery?

And my point? - irrelevant of what its category may or may not be what does the consumer believe it to be on the information that has been provided for them?

The more I look into this the more confusing it is getting

Re: Calmex

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:15:51 GMT

A product that is not a medicine, ie doesn't treat, cure or prevent can still be beneficial in maintaining health. You ask why you would want to use such a product, but as an example consider all the glucosamine that's on the market, the majority of which are not authorised as medicines but sold as food supplements. Glucosamine contains compounds that maintain the body's ability to manufacture collagen and proteoglycans that are essential to maintain the synovial fluid in the joints - so not treating, curing or preventing but supporting and maintaining bodily functions.

There are also products that simply provide specific elements or compounds that might be required during a particular life stage in the same way that a food does. Reminds me of the saying about food being medicine and medicine being food - there is crossover here. But then there is with what is unsafe as well - you mentioned water and while nobody can live without it, it can also be unsafe, if not fatal, if given in sufficient quantities.

It is complex but to treat a medical condition you need to prove efficacy (along with safety and purity) and have a marketing authorisation. To simply produce something to supplement the diet to maintain the status quo you don't. It's the "medicinal by function" and the "medicinal by presentation" that is where it gets complicated as both of these could be said to be subjective and require an opinion which is where the VMD comes in to it all.