eye ulcers in rabbits

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Simon Moore — Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:20:07 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Not sure what to advise - am just very surprised that the vets aren't taking this more seriously. Eye ulcers are very painful - your rabbits are going to be pretty uncomfortable post op, on top of whatever pain the surgery has caused. Not to mention possible further complications...

As well as all the suggestions already, the other things to check are:

-make sure none of the nurses or vets are touching the cornea when testing anaesthetic depth

-I wouldn't recommend taping the eyes - good lubrication and taking care around the eyes should be sufficient. I could imagine that over-zealous taping could increase the chance of corneal abrasion - especially if you really push the eyelids together and cause an entropion-type problem ( especially if the rabbit isn't fully anaesthetised and is trying to open and close its eyes.)

-make sure any heat sources aren't too close to the eye - eg. heat mats placed under the head may cause the eyes to dry out more quickly that usual.

-minimise airbourne dust and debris - don't have your rabbits on hay, straw, shredded paper etc either pre or post-op - there will be more debris in the air which could irritate the eyes.

I hope you manage to get to the bottom of this problem.

[/quote]

Any update on this??? Concerned, since rabbit corneal ulcers are not easy to cure.

Simon

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Hannah25uk — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 22:11:35 GMT

This article looks similar to your what your describing except obviously its in rats.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/aalas/cm/2005/00000055/00000002/art00011

Is it worth contacting the drug manufacturers to see if they have anything documented?

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Doolally — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:33:11 GMT

Well, to be fair they are, sort of, taking it seriously. I've spoken to one of the vets and she's got everyone else on board to check for ulcers pre op, immediately post op, 4-6 hrs post op, and the next morning (we keep all rabbit GAs overnight to ensure eating well)...it's just the intubating, when I said we should intubate to see if it changes things I just get oh but rabbits are hard to intubate.

If we hadn't checked this rabbit 5 hrs post op we probably wouldn't have known he had superficial ulcers as he was eating and his eyes weren't closed.

The rabbits do have hay pre op, and then post op to munch on (but not enough for a bed) so I guess airborne dust won't be helping.

The one eye rabbit was taped but the others weren't.

I'm 100% sure that none of the nurses would touch the cornea.

I'll check that they're not too close to the heat mat.

One of the vets is going to do an audit and try and help me get to the bottom of this, as it is a really big concern, so any more ideas at all i'll try to implement them all....and i'll keep on at them to intubate!!!

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:15:44 GMT

As well as all the suggestions already, the other things to check are:

-make sure none of the nurses or vets are touching the cornea when testing anaesthetic depth

-make sure any heat sources aren't too close to the eye - eg. heat mats placed under the head may cause the eyes to dry out more quickly that usual.

-minimise airbourne dust and debris - don't have your rabbits on hay, straw, shredded paper etc either pre or post-op - there will be more debris in the air which could irritate the eyes.

I hope you manage to get to the bottom of this problem.

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Doolally — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:00:37 GMT

Argh!

Rabbit castrate the other day, I expressed my concerns to one of the vets, so before the op she put fluroscein dye in his eyes and he didn't have ulcers. Another nurse did the GA but she promised me the mask didn't touch his eyes and it was a snug fit, so although some gas probably did escape not a huge amount.

Post op we checked his eyes and no ulcers. He had a really smooth recovery, eyes lubed lots,was kept in sternal until fully awake and I was with him until he was up and not wobbly and he didn't rub his eyes on the bedding at all. At 4pm we checked for ulcers and he had superficial ulcers in both eyes.

The vet thinks that were it to do with the gas during the GA he would have ulcers immediately post op, not 5 hours post op? I said can we at least try intubating them to see and she's not keen, and she's the most nurse friendly vet likely to listen to my concerns!!

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:37:16 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

[quote user="Doolally"]

None of the vets are very keen on tubing rabbits (because they can't do it coz they haven't practised!!) and although obviously gold standard I do think if they don't get it in first go it's best on the bunny to not keep trying. We don't have anyone who is a pro tubing rabbits so it's not as if we've got someone who can step in and do it if it doesn't go right 1st try.

Agree give it a go yourself...... you will be surprised at how fab you feel when ypu get it... personally give it a few goes.. not into this one attermpt crap. some of our vets who have done it for years dont always get it 1st time

I shall try to encourage tubing...but i don't think it'll be taken up at all

does sound like it might be the gas though doesn't it

[/quote]

I had a rabbit castrate crash on me and the vet hadn't tubed it. Really struggled to get one down it and never got it back. Even if it takes a couple of attempts, it really is worth it and if they vets don't want to practice why don't you give it a shot? You could be the super nurse they turn to when they can't do it.

[/quote]

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Kim Buckley — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:17:53 GMT

[quote user="Doolally"]

I shall try to encourage tubing...but i don't think it'll be taken up at all

does sound like it might be the gas though doesn't it

[/quote]

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Doolally — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:13:41 GMT

I shall try to encourage tubing...but i don't think it'll be taken up at all

does sound like it might be the gas though doesn't it

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Kim Buckley — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:00:12 GMT

Have always tubed rabbits and never seen any problems. Get some small ET tubes and get your vets practicing! That's what I did

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:32:56 GMT

Maybe some of the gas is escaping around the mask.., we tube all our rabbits and dont have any probs re ulcers developing. We did have a few cats one time, but we changed the lube and it was fine after that.

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Doolally — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:06:04 GMT

Ok, rabbit the other day had a small mask (the clear sort you get with the aero chambers) which definitely didn't touch his eyes. And first rabbit with the one eye had his remaining eye taped shut pre-masking so that wasn't touched by a mask. Not sure who did the GA on the others so can't check for definite about the masks with them.

So, doesn't seem to be the mask I don't think. The one the other day I opened a brand new lube for him.

Have had the same active scavenging system for the best part of a year.

Got a castrate in for tomorrow, I shall follow him from start to end!

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Nieky van Veggel — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 11:26:50 GMT

How about contaminated lube? Or type of lube? Apparently the dose/frequency of lube makes no difference, nor does the application time. Contaminated applicator tip perhaps?

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Sal the 1st — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 22:39:32 GMT

something else that has just occurred to me besides residual cleaner on face mask - could it all start with dry eye? has there been any change to the gas flow or scavenging at all?

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Doolally — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:41:32 GMT

Hopefully it is as simple as the mask - but it's only been recently we seem to be having this problem - before this week I can't remember the last time we had a bunny ulcer :(

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Doolally — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:38:40 GMT

They are masked....I haven't been involved in the GA of these rabbits so I'll check what masks were used - I hadn't thought of that though! doh. If it is the mask how can we prevent it? we have a few various sized masks so I can experiment with sizes but is it worth taping eyes shut or something along those lines? Cleaning protocol been the same.

We've got various lubes around, so it would have probably been different each time, and possibly each rabbit having a few different lubes during recovery.

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Sal the 1st — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:33:47 GMT

[quote user="Jenny Cook SVN"]

Do you tube or mask your bunnies to maintain them on oxygen? Someone at college yesterday said they have had ulcers appear in rabbits post op.. and they found that it was the mask on the face that was causing them where it could rub them either adjusting the mask or just rubbing throughout the GA. Just a thought...

[/quote]

yes i was thinking along those lines too - if they are masked have you changed what you clean your mask in or anything like that? What are you using as lube - ie has it been the same tube or different ones?

Re: eye ulcers in rabbits

Jenny Cook RVN — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:27:56 GMT