Rottweilers and aggression!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Gemma Harrison — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:42:35 GMT

[quote user="PHA86"]

Has anyone met an aggressive Doberman in practice? I just wonder, they too have the stigma, however being a Dobie owner I am yet to have seen a nasty one at work. Hmmm!

[/quote]

A friend of ours had a Dobie and he was always fine unil their daughter was pregnant and then he became extremely aggresive with them and protective of their daughter. The wife ended up with about 30 stitches in her face. They did however kepp hime and after the birth he was fine!!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Gemma Harrison — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:34:57 GMT

I have done some CPD in this area, and I was once told that Rotties in particular have a sensitivity to a cirtain pitch of sound! So when a small child sqeels with excitement, this could particularly effect the Rottie. Our family had a Rottie when I was young and she was a Dear, she actually thought she was a lap dog!!!!!!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Emma Bartlett — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:15:47 GMT

No not in the Shropshire area.......worrying to think that there is more than one!!!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Tracy Windler RVN — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:01:21 GMT

[quote user="Emma Bartlett"]Back on the rottweiler subject.....i took on my male Rottweiler from a lady who split with her husband and had 3 kids under the age of 5, she had a 6 year old entire female rottweiler and Storm a 2 year old male. I took on Storm (he was crazy when i got him!) as she couldn't cope. I have heard since she has bought a female dogue de bordeaux, as she has always wanted one, and has bred litters from it................i am still furious, i take her problem dog from her so she can get the dog she wants and make money from it[/quote]

She doesn't live in Shropshire, does she?!? Sounds like one of our clients- the bitch had to have a caesar-only 2 pups survived, they don't have any money, but are determined to keep one of the pups-while not paying their bill!!! A rotti and 3 Dog de B's in a house with 2 young children. Grrrrrr!! Sorry, unnecessary addition, but the husband is also claiming benefits and doing odd-jobs, dog sitting as a side-line. Don't you just love some people?!?

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Steph Phillips — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:38:43 GMT

[quote user="Nick BATFINK Shackleton Dip AVN(surg)VN MBVNA"]

I've been following this thread over the past few days......

Here's my take on the situation.

I think every dog has the potential to be aggressive. Whether that be through bad treatment by owners, no training, no discipline, maybe even bad breeding.....

I think the prob with rotties and other larger dogs is just that their size and strength! So people are apprehensive when it comes to these and others dogs of the same size.

[/quote]

Thats exactly my thoughts too!!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Emma Purnell — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:30:14 GMT

We had a German Wire-haired Pointer in practice that bit me during a post op check. I had checked his castrate wound 4 times but decided to do a final check before he left with him being so bouncy and he, with no warning, grabbed hold of my head and pulled. At the first movement, the previously restrained dog was released by the owner who ran to the corner of the room screaming and left me to it! I ended up in minor injuries but no major harm done.

I had dealt with him throughout his op 10 days previously, he was a lovely dog and had shown no aggression, just in the same way he didn't before he bit me in that consult, or after I had detached him - he was just back to normal and friendly.

The female owner was horrified and wanted him euthanased on the spot, the male owner (who turned up later to discuss it) didn't.

After a long discussion between them and practice staff, they took the dog away to see how he got on. 2 months later he bit a friend of one of their children and was euthanased - again was playing and gave no warning. Thankfully they were also not seriously hurt, but I still wonder if I should have spoken up that night either way. I avoided the situation because, to be honest, I have spent hours and hours trying to look at what I did to cause him to attack because there were absolutely no warning signs - and I am pretty hot on warnings! I can't come up with anything, and when I spoke to the owner and other staff members, we cannot understand it.

In a long-winded way, I guess what I am saying is, when an owner comes in and requests euthanasia for an aggressive dog, I am not sure I could advise them either way. I would be keen to try to look at the situation and why they are aggressive, but at the same time, I have been in a situation where a young person was bitten because I held back and I never ever want to feel that way again.

Waffle over!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Kim Buckley — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:02:06 GMT

I think a lot of it depends on the dog. You have to try pretty hard to make a CKCS aggressive!

I have helped put to sleep quite a few aggressive dogs and they have been breeds like rottis, JRT and collies. All these breeds have got a reputation for being aggressive. I'm not being breedist and saying that all dogs of these breeds are aggressive but they have the characters which make them easier to becomes aggressive. Does that actually makes sense? Hmmm anyway...

Yes some dogs can be helped with their aggression but some it has just gone too far. I think if an owner wants their dog putting to sleep because it is aggressive then they shouldn't be persuaded not to. Especially if that dog has bitten someone. I know that if one of my dogs bit someone unprovoked then I would have them pts. It would break my heart but I couldn't have a dog I couldn't trust.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

lollipop — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 22:12:36 GMT

Would be interested to know if any of you have a practice policy for euthanasing dangerous dogs? Does anyone encourage owners to seek advice from a reputable qualified behaviourist or to consider rehoming to a more responsible owner or to go ahead and PTS after the first incident of aggression or does it depend on the circumstances?

My parents owned 2 rotties (both rescues) when I was a small child, both were kept as 'guard dogs' and kept on my dads yard (I use the words 'guard dogs' very loosely as they were such big softies they were far more likely to lick you to death than even growl at someone breaking in!!) When they were older they came to our house to live with us and they were the most loving dogs I have ever known, my sister and I would often dress them up in outfits we made them and curl up and fall asleep next to them by the fire, so not exactly the stereotypical 'devil dogs!'

I now own a rescued CKCS who came to me as he was going to be PTS for being aggressive and biting his owners son. He was 18 months old when I got him and this was to be his 4th home. He is 5 now and has never shown any aggression towards anyone, although he was very nervous when I first got him, particularly of peoples feet which makes us think he must of been mistreated in his past. However I am of course always very careful to ensure he feels safe and secure when with unfamiliar people or in strange surroundings. He is now a very happy dog with a loving home for life.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Nick Shackleton — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:50:41 GMT

I've been following this thread over the past few days......

Here's my take on the situation.

I think every dog has the potential to be aggressive. Whether that be through bad treatment by owners, no training, no discipline, maybe even bad breeding.....

I think the prob with rotties and other larger dogs is just that their size and strength! So people are apprehensive when it comes to these and others dogs of the same size.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

PHA86 — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:23:01 GMT

Has anyone met an aggressive Doberman in practice? I just wonder, they too have the stigma, however being a Dobie owner I am yet to have seen a nasty one at work. Hmmm!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Jody Barry — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 16:40:05 GMT

Hi Guys,

I'm a rottie owner too and agree with much that has been said on this forum. I hate the fact that breeds get a stigma attached. In my view it is discrimination.

It is like saying that certain races or ethnic background makes you more likely to get involved in knife crime. Ridiculous.

I believe that humans expect dogs to deal with so many stressful situations - its because people humanise them. Even in practice, we often expect cats to try and bite us but get shocked if a dog tries it. People expect dogs to remain cute and cuddly at all times, but they are animals and will defend themselves or act aggressively if their instinct tells them to.I do think it is unfair that small dogs often get away with aggressive behaviour as people often see it as cute!

I completely respect people who have a fear of Rottweilers. Therefore I ensure my dog is on a lead and under control at all times in public places. I only let him off if I have met people who are happy for me to do so. It is easy to get defensive and take it personally when someone is scared of our dogs but try and see it from their perspective. They don't know our dogs like we do. I try to set a good example by being extra polite to people and making way for people if they are walking on towards us and seem nervous.

Owning a rottweiler or any breed with a stigma is a huge responsibility. I think our job is to be responsible, polite owners and ensure that people get to know us and our dogs as good members of society. Try not to get defensive when people are frightened of your dog - it is their right to walk freely without feeling intimidated or frightened by our pets. I know it seems unfair but I have to say I'd avoid people if they started walking their pet spiders!

Large breeds can be dangerous if aggressive, but shouldn't be labelled aggressive just because of their size and colour.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

emmRAR — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 15:23:17 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

I don't want to put a downer on this thread but I keep thinking about this dog with regards to this thread.

We had a man bring in his 7 year old rottie to be put to sleep because it had growled and gone to bite his 4 year old son. He had had the dog since he was a pup and it had always been a lovely dog and really good with the little boy. Then one day he just changed and showing aggression. The owner had made the decision because he couldn't risk it with his son and his wife was pregnant.

He bought the dog in and it was being very aggressive towards me, the vet and the owner. The owner was in floods of tears because the dog had never been like this before and he struggled to get a muzzle on it. We managed to put it to sleep without too much of a fight but the owner was absolutely gutted.

Just shows that even a seemingly placid dog can turn.

[/quote]

We had one of these recently, 17 month old rottie bitch, well socialised, always been great around people, in the past couple of months had started to just 'go for people' completely unprovoked - once or twice when someone was fussing her, she was fine and then would just turn and snap when they took their hand away. She also went for two children, both times on the lead luckily, but they weren't even walking very close to her. The owners has 3 young children, and decided it wasn't safe to keep her, even though she hadn't bitten anyone yet it was a matter of when rather than if, so they had her euthanased. Doing the responsibile thing I think, as hard as it was for them. Lovely dog with them though, trying to sit on the owners knee in the waiting room.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Mrs Dot Dot — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 16:14:51 GMT

People!!!!!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:26:37 GMT

We had a guy bring in his Akita for pts after it had bitten the neighbours child at a birthday party!!! the dog had bitten twice previously he informed us, but he the owner decided that because now it had bitten a 3rd time and it being a kid he should put it down!!! some people are just plain thick

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Kim Buckley — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:19:03 GMT

[quote user="Nicola Russell"]

The latest breed the media is going after is the Japanese Akita after one bit a girl on the face.

[/quote]

Which is again a big, powerful dog you shouldn't leave around children. People will never learn.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Nicola Russell — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 09:18:36 GMT

The latest breed the media is going after is the Japanese Akita after one bit a girl on the face.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Emma Bartlett — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 08:36:10 GMT

[quote user="mrs mac"]

We have had litters of working collie pups for sale in the past and I have to say we have only let them go to working homes or homes where they are going to do agility or be active in the true sense of the word.

Lots of people see ads for farm collies and think oh here we go I'll get a cheap pup. Their perception usually is that the pups are only here as an 'accident' or they are shoved in shed and fed crappy food and they are actually doing you a favour by offering you ten quid for a pup. Cant get my head round the fact people get a pup based on the decision to buy 'cheap' or that they'd even consider buying a pup that they thought had been fed on crap food and stuck in a shed since birth!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

My neighbours ......perfect example, picked up a collie for £80 from a farm in Scotland, they just drove past saw the sign and got one!!!! They had no idea what having a collie meant, they just liked the idea of having a dog, they didn't even enjoy walking so i have no idea why they wanted a dog in the first place.

Well after 5 years of mental torture, i've just managed to get this dog into a foster home for one of the collie rescues, the owners have had me on their case for the past 3 years trying to get them to rehome him to someone who could actually give him a life.....they walked him once a fortnight,at most, and only put out into the garden morning and evening as they wouldn't leave him out as he used to get over the fence into my garden to play with my dogs. He ran away a few times too.....once he was found on the runway of the RAF base (we live outside the base i married quarters) its a miracle he didn't get run over by a car never mind an aircraft!

Back on the rottweiler subject.....i took on my male Rottweiler from a lady who split with her husband and had 3 kids under the age of 5, she had a 6 year old entire female rottweiler and Storm a 2 year old male. I took on Storm (he was crazy when i got him!) as she couldn't cope. I have heard since she has bought a female dogue de bordeaux, as she has always wanted one, and has bred litters from it................i am still furious, i take her problem dog from her so she can get the dog she wants and make money from it (The only good thing is that her problem dog is actually an amazing dog who hasn't been easy to train but is a brilliant boy, we still go to weekly classes and he has a lovely nature, he makes me laugh so much as everything he does is with such enthusiasm and he is a PAT dog)

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Mac Feather — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:00:07 GMT

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 23:16:45 GMT

[quote user="mrs mac"]

I think people fall in love with the idea of a certain breed and dont always do research into what that breed is like and how it wil fit in with their household and lifestyle.

One memory I have is of a family marching in with a collie pup 6 or 7 months old requesting the pup be p.t.s.

Vet asks why, client says 'well its not clever like the collies on 'one man and his dog' programme. Vet asks if they have been training the pup to be a sheepdog, client looks at vet like shes grown an extra head and replies 'no! collies are meant to train themselves'.

I couldnt believe that anyone would expect a pup to be a certain way/do certain things without any training!

[/quote]

You know what Heather, you hit the nail on the head..... people get a Rot and they complain big time if it does not react how THEY expect..... after all they have done their "research" they "know the breed" The I am a Rottie owner is in the forefront...., it cant be any different from the lab I owned many moons ago etc etc etc....jeez I have heard it all!!!!My ***.... inthe famous words of Jim royale! they treat them like any other dog.... good bad or otherwise and expect them to act accordingly.... ERR...........no!!!!! you get a Rottie, or any other named breed... staff E BT etc... bloody well research it, get to know it from an owner point of view... and actually get to know the basics that were never apparent in your wee cross breed /retriever/lab etc.... and that as far as I am concerened is where people go very wrong!

I bred a litter of Rotties years ago.... omg the numptys that applied for a dog were abundant.... but everyone who had never owned one before.... never got a male from me... I always said have you had one before? if the answer was yes then they got a male if they wanted..... but if the answer was no....even if they wanted a male.... then there was no way they were getting one! The females ,are like all breeds a bit more easy to manage, and there was no way some person..... no matter how well they presented themselves as well to do.....or as the second coming that they were getting a male rottie off of me!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Mac Feather — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:43:14 GMT

I think people fall in love with the idea of a certain breed and dont always do research into what that breed is like and how it wil fit in with their household and lifestyle.

One memory I have is of a family marching in with a collie pup 6 or 7 months old requesting the pup be p.t.s.

I couldnt believe that anyone would expect a pup to be a certain way/do certain things without any training!

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Kim Buckley — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:09:51 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA"]

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]Yeah that is a very good point. Just all goes to show that people just don't know enough about dogs and their behaviour[/quote]

I think a lot of people are just to blaze at times, and there are certain breeds you just cant be blaze with....ie a Rottweiler!

[/quote]

Maybe they should start off with a fish or something

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:07:35 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]Yeah that is a very good point. Just all goes to show that people just don't know enough about dogs and their behaviour[/quote]

I think a lot of people are just to blaze at times, and there are certain breeds you just cant be blaze with....ie a Rottweiler! maybe if people were a bit more attentive and educated, then we may not have as many situations as we do with this breed and others such as Staffs, etc.

But we all know that is never going to happen.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Kim Buckley — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:00:09 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA"]

I agree some can just turn... but I think in those situations there are underlying influences, whether that be illness, pain, some kind of fear response

[/quote]

Yeah that is a very good point. Just all goes to show that people just don't know enough about dogs and their behaviour.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:48:02 GMT

Hi kim, this was actually one of my points in putting up this thread.

I agree some can just turn... but I think in those situations there are underlying influences, whether that be illness, pain, some kind of fear response. But I also think they are few and far between. I think a lot of the ones we see that say, oh he/she has never done anything like this before etc.... the dog probably has shown little signs albeit subtle eye movements, body language, and the owner has just been ignorant of the fact that the dog has possible aggressive tendancies, thus those subtle hints are ignored and allowed to develop into something more.

I wasreading the paper yesterday about the little girl who was attacked in dundee, there were 3 dogs, 2 adults and a young adolescent, all off the lead.The owner has children and she said that they had never done anything to her kids.... again this annoys me, just because your dogs are ok with your own kids does not automatically make them fine with others... owner ignorance again!. As soon s those dogs showed interest in that little girl, they should have been put on the lead.... in fact they should not have been off in the first place, you cant have any control of 3 dogs off the lead at once, andif there is more than one dog, they definitely behave differently to a single dog.

Re: Rottweilers and aggression!

Kim Buckley — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 09:19:18 GMT

I don't want to put a downer on this thread but I keep thinking about this dog with regards to this thread.

Just shows that even a seemingly placid dog can turn.