Behavioural advice

Re: Behavioural advice

Emma Purnell — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:38:23 GMT

My little Jack Russell had our Christmas turkey a couple of years ago... he is about 20cm off the floor and managed to reach the back of the work surface! Still no idea how...

Re: Behavioural advice

Julie-Anne Wilson — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:44:15 GMT

Thanks for all the advice guys. My stepsister literally just had a baby on Saturday so I will send all this info to her when she's settled.

Re: Behavioural advice

Louise B — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:03:55 GMT

[quote user="Doolally"]

I've been thinking more about this, and I think the most effective (but perhaps not the easiest!) method is to train the humans not to leave food out when the dog is on it's own.

[/quote]

Re: Behavioural advice

Mrs Dot Dot — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:45:19 GMT

[quote user="Doolally"]

I've been thinking more about this, and I think the most effective (but perhaps not the easiest!) method is to train the humans not to leave food out when the dog is on it's own.

Mine's only a JRT but a few years ago we had a family buffet at christmas spread out on the dining room table....I thought Hmmmmm the dog's very quiet, went into the dining room and had sneaked in there and was up on the table scoffing the chocolate log :cringe: ...major dog and people training went on after that incident!

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I definately think that is the best advice... or feed your dog so much food that they really aren't hungry so don't go on the scrounge / scavenge.........

Re: Behavioural advice

Doolally — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:41:23 GMT

I've been thinking more about this, and I think the most effective (but perhaps not the easiest!) method is to train the humans not to leave food out when the dog is on it's own.

Re: Behavioural advice

Mrs Dot Dot — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:20:00 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Mrs Dot Dot' Tracey Plant RVN MBVNA"]

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Mrs Dot Dot' Tracey Plant RVN MBVNA"]

Forgot to mention also, that she is only 5.7kg so that helps alot with not stealing off work surfaces!!!! She still tries tho'................

[/quote]

Hahahah - the day your pug x steals food from the kitchen worksurface is the day she enters the Guiness Book of Records for the shortest legged dog ever to achieve this feat!

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Do you know what? I do have to be really careful because since she was adult size she just keeps jumping, jumping and now, with all her practice over her 3.5years of life, she can get her nose about 2 inches over the edge of the work surface so if there is a knife or a bag or something in this area she can grab it! It hasn't happened very often but she managed to grab a kitchen knife that came very close to falling down and stabbing her and she's grabbed cheese and meat packaging etc.... That's where her opportunist gene kicks in... she only has to be sucessful once in a blue moon but it happened so in her eyes it will happen again, however long it takes !!!! and thats why I love her so much!!!!

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Aw, bless her. You need to video her doing this and show us the video. Bet she looks sooooo cute!

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Have never thought about videoing but I will try..... damn! I'll have to encourage her to do it again........................... hehehe!

Re: Behavioural advice

Louise B — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:22:32 GMT

[quote user="Mrs Dot Dot' Tracey Plant RVN MBVNA"]

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Mrs Dot Dot' Tracey Plant RVN MBVNA"]

Forgot to mention also, that she is only 5.7kg so that helps alot with not stealing off work surfaces!!!! She still tries tho'................

[/quote]

Hahahah - the day your pug x steals food from the kitchen worksurface is the day she enters the Guiness Book of Records for the shortest legged dog ever to achieve this feat!

[/quote]

Aw, bless her. You need to video her doing this and show us the video. Bet she looks sooooo cute!

Re: Behavioural advice

Mrs Dot Dot — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:11:16 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Mrs Dot Dot' Tracey Plant RVN MBVNA"]

Forgot to mention also, that she is only 5.7kg so that helps alot with not stealing off work surfaces!!!! She still tries tho'................

[/quote]

Hahahah - the day your pug x steals food from the kitchen worksurface is the day she enters the Guiness Book of Records for the shortest legged dog ever to achieve this feat!

[/quote]

Re: Behavioural advice

BengalcatRVN — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 13:32:23 GMT

When we are defrosting food, we keep it in the microwave, or the cats would have it.
Some interesting ideas here, but I agree the best way is not to leave food unattended.

Re: Behavioural advice

Louise B — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 13:16:15 GMT

[quote user="Mrs Dot Dot' Tracey Plant RVN MBVNA"]

Forgot to mention also, that she is only 5.7kg so that helps alot with not stealing off work surfaces!!!! She still tries tho'................

[/quote]

Hahahah - the day your pug x steals food from the kitchen worksurface is the day she enters the Guiness Book of Records for the shortest legged dog ever to achieve this feat!

Re: Behavioural advice

Mrs Dot Dot — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 13:11:51 GMT

'' Plus, I have got to be honest and say that my Border terrier looks sooooo cute when she is up to no good that she gets away with murder (and my black beastie bear is too stupid to even think of food stealing!). ''

[quote user="Mrs Dot Dot' Tracey Plant RVN MBVNA"]

My dog is DEFINATELY an opportunist!! Wouldn't have her any other way..................

[/quote]

Forgot to mention also, that she is only 5.7kg so that helps alot with not stealing off work surfaces!!!! She still tries tho'................

Re: Behavioural advice

Louise B — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:47:52 GMT

Hi,

Once a dog has learnt to steal food it is very difficult to retrain them as they really have hit the jackpot receiving steaks, etc for stealing. Chickens are like this - once they have learnt to break an egg and find the contents delicious they will always do this. Stock people will usually cull such a bird as it is so difficult to stop them. I am not suggesting culling the springer spaniel but tough measures are needed if you really want to stop this behaviour.

1. It is really important to prevent the dog from practicing the behaviour. This means that while attempting to break the habit there must be NO opportunities EVER for the dog to steal tasty food. I cannot emphasise strongly enough how important this is initially. (but I have given it a good try)

- Make sure no food is ever left unattended and accessible in the kitchen - you will probably find the dog is purposely visiting the kitchen more often now in the hope that he will strike lucky again. You want to make sure that this behaviour extinguishes as the more time he visits the kitchen the more likely he is to strike lucky under the current circumstances.

2. Use aversion therapy. Yes, you can use it in your absence - provided it is planned absence. The best aversion therapy is where the dog *thinks* that its own behaviour has caused the negative consequences and doesn't link it to the owners' presence or absence. In this case you want the dog to think that taking food off a table, counter, etc has caused something unpleasant. I personally would do this by making the food itself unattractive in these circumstances. Get some sausages (I would use cheap ones so that they are not very meaty/or use quorn ones) and spike them with something that tastes unpleasant (hot chili sauce/real chillis) +/- spray them with bitter apple. Leave them on the side and leave and let the dog discover/try to eat them. Repeat the process.

Main points:

- Don't be tempted to start with a small amount of chili, etc. You want the taste to be as nasty as possible on the first occasion. If you increase gradually then you effectively densensitise the dog to the nasty taste.

- Spiked/unpleasant food should be the ONLY food that the dog gets a chance to steal during the training period. You want to the 'going into the kitchen on the off chance that there will be something yummy to steal' behaviour to extinguish.

3. Recognise a dog is dog is dog. Just as everybody else above has said. Dogs will steal. It is unlikely that the training method above will be a 'forever cure'. It should reduce the likelihood of food stealing but it will not 100% prevent it. So the owner needs to focus as much as possible on a) not leaving food unattended at an accessible height, and b) not letting the dog have access to the kitchen when food is available. The training above will just help for the times in the future when food is accidentally left out.

NB. If the dog has been stealing for ages and on lots of occasions this will make the aversion training harder. In these circumstances you do especially run the risk that aversion training using spiked food won't work as the dog will recognise that the spiked food 'smells funny/different' compared to previous food stolen and may simply learn to avoid food that smells funny but still continue to steal non-funny-smelling food. If this happens a different kind of aversion training can work (which we can discuss if the food spiking fails) or the use of a product called Bitrex may help but I would message the VPIS guy on here to check re: safety margins, etc. We use it experimentally though with chickens and have found it safely aversive!

I hope this helps. Goodluck.

I forgot to say that I also like Doolally's idea. I wouldn't personally use it as a first line technique (but that is my preference and not to say that it doesn't have its use) simply because it puts the owner too much in the equation and I would be concerned again that the dog is going to still learn to avoid stealing when in a formal 'training situation' rather than in a more naturalistic setting (which is the circumstances under which the dog is stealing). However, I think Doolally's idea is also very useful and *should* be adapted in the training of any dog as it would be very beneficial in other ways!

Personally I would just go down the 'don't give the dogs the chance to steal' route but I don't have the problem of children, etc Plus, I have got to be honest and say that my Border terrier looks sooooo cute when she is up to no good that she gets away with murder (and my black beastie bear is too stupid to even think of food stealing!).

Re: Behavioural advice

Mrs Dot Dot — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 23:10:03 GMT

My dog is DEFINATELY an opportunist!! Wouldn't have her any other way..................

Re: Behavioural advice

Doolally — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 23:01:39 GMT

Seriously, you cannot expect a dog to not steal steaks if they are there for the taking if he's never been taught that they're not for the taking.I know it would be lovely if all dogs knew just what we wanted of them, but they live by different rules. Dogs are scavengers, its in their nature, any food is a meal to a dog.

I *think* she could train him not to steal when they leave the room, but it will take a lot of training and dedication. First she needs to train him to stay in a certain place when food is being prepared, he needs a good down-stay first (or sit-stay), then when preparing food put him in a down stay on his place rewarding every few seconds, and marking a break(the very second he moves) with a uh-uh no treat and put him back, gradually increasing the timing between treats, until he can go a whole food prep session with only a reward at the end. During this training he can't have the opportunity to steal food when she's not there.

then she can set-up leaving something tasty on the side and leave the room but spy on him, as soon as he breaks, uh-uh and put him back, if he stays reward. It shouldn't take him too long to realise that the same as when there is a person present he only gets rewarded if he stays. She'd need to train this in every situation where food is likely to be left as he won't recognise leaving the kitchen is leaving in the dining room etc.

I think being a springer he should pick it up quite quickly, but it is time consuming for the person...but worth it if he's going to be rehomed otherwise.

But although I've done the above with my dog, i'm not sure i'd leave him for longer than 10mins or so with food present as sooner or later his belly will overcome his training!

A good analogy i read about dogs being opportunistic is regarding people and speed cameras. If you know there's a speed camera you'll stick to the limit, if you know there's not a camera lots (most?) people will go over the limit. If a dog knows there's no consequences he'll have that steak!

Re: Behavioural advice

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:45:40 GMT

crate training!